For more messages from Charles Stanley, including this week’s broadcast, go to intouch.org/tv.
Andy: So, I would like to
begin our conversation talking
about parenting.
But before I talk about what a
good dad you are and have been
my whole life, I think
it’s important for people
to know a little bit
about your background because,
you grew up without your father.
So, can you catch people up on
just your growing up years?
And then I want to talk a little
bit about what a great dad you
were, and how in the world
did you ever figure that out?
So, you grew–you were born
in Dry Fork, Virginia.
Dr. Stanley: Dry Fork,
Virginia.
My father died when I was
nine months of age.
So, my mother had to go to work.
And so, then I got shifted
around from one person
to the other, keeping me,
while she worked.
And that went on for a number
of years.
And then, of course, starting
to school, I was very shy.
And I think, how did I ever get
through grammar school?
Andy: Yeah.
Because in in some cases,
I remember these stories
as a kid.
You know, when I thought
I had it hard, you would talk
about getting yourself up
in the morning, fixing your
own breakfast, because your Mom
had already gone to work
at the mill.
Dr. Stanley: Well, it was
difficult but, you know, my Mom
taught me how to fry an egg,
or scramble an egg, and toast.
And then, of course after
a while, I learned that well
enough so I could just fix me
maybe some other things.
But, she taught me
to be able to do whatever
I needed to do
and to trust God,
that He would help me.
And that’s the thing
that I kept hearing her,
just trust the Lord.
Just do what you know is right
and trust the Lord.
So, she drilled that into
my head and that I could do
whatever I needed to do
if I would trust Him.
Andy: Wow!
So, one of the mysteries to me
that as a kid growing up
I didn’t appreciate.
But now that I am a Dad,
I’ve appreciated so much because
so much of what I’ve done
as a Father I learned from you.
But you didn’t have a father
to learn from.
So, you know, how in the world
did you figure this out?
Because I’m going to talk,
tell some stories
in a few minutes about the kinds
of things you did.
But I mean, you know, when
I was born, when Becky was born,
you didn’t have a role model.
What–how did you figure
this out?
Dr. Stanley: Well,
my Mom taught me several things,
and just drilled them
in my head.
She–to obey, to obey the Lord,
to read the Scripture every day.
Even though
I didn’t understand it,
to read the Scripture every day.
And to do what I knew was
the right thing to do.
She didn’t take
the Bible and say,
“Well, memorize this verse
or that verse.
And the only time I remember her
giving me a verse to remember
is before I preached
my first sermon.
But I just saw her reading
the Bible.
I watched–
I listened to her pray.
And I watched
how she related to people.
So, I had a great respect
for my Mom being a Godly woman.
Andy: So then,
when you became a Dad,
how did you figure out
the dad part?
I mean, you had seen your Mom
be a good Mom,
but you were such a great Dad!
How did you–
how did you figure that out?
Dr. Stanley: Well,
I treated y’all the way
I wanted to be treated.
Andy: Wow!
Dr. Stanley: I think that
says it all to me because not
having a father and thinking,
what would I like
for my father to have done?
So, when I think
of all the places we went,
and I never worried about
spending money on you all.
Just have a good time.
In other words, it just came
natural for me because
I knew that’s what a good fa–
that’s what a good dad would do.
Andy: Well, I want to talk
about a few things
that you’ve taught me.
I’m not even sure I’ve shared
some of these with you.
But one of the most important
things you taught me was
how to make good decisions.
And the way he taught me,
how to make good decisions was,
my Dad refused to make decisions
for me.
In fact, there were
so many incidents,
and this began really young.
I would say, “Dad,
what do you think I should do
in this situation?”
And he would say,
“Well, what would you do
if I wasn’t here to tell you?”
And I would say,
“But you are here to tell me,
and I need you to tell me.”
But that habit
or that tendency you had.
Again, I don’t know
where you figured that out,
forced me to do two things.
It forced me to learn how
to make good decisions early on.
And then, the second thing was,
you were, you did such
a great job allowing Becky and I
to face the consequences
of our decisions.
You never bailed us out.
And I guess, because growing up,
there wasn’t anybody to bail you
out when you made bad decisions,
you had to face the consequences
yourself.
Right?
Dr. Stanley: Right.
And I realized all of that
would drive you to God.
Andy: Yep.
Dr. Stanley: And I wanted you
to point yourself to Him.
“What would God have me to do
when my dad’s not here?”
What would God have me to do,
because my father died
when I was nine months of age.
And I thought, you know,
God could take me off the scene,
but I wanted to be sure whenever
He did, you knew what to do.
Andy: Well, early on, maybe
too early, you just consistently
said, “What would you do
or how would you handle that,
or how would you fix that
if I wasn’t here?”
I remember my first traffic
ticket, I’d like to say it was
my one and only traffic ticket.
Dr. Stanley: Ha, ha, ha.
Andy: But, I remember
my first traffic tick–
I did–had not had
my driver’s license very long.
I got pulled over
leaving school.
I got home, and of course
I was scared to death,
like any teenager.
“Oh no, what’s my Dad
going to do?
Is he going to take away
the car?
Is he going to take away
my license?”
And you probably
don’t even remember this.
So, I came in and, you know,
apologetically, “Dad,
I got pulled over by the police.
He gave me a traffic ticket.”
And you didn’t get mad.
You said, “Well,
now you’ll have to handle that.”
And I’m like,
“Well, what do I do?”
And you said, “Well,
just turn the ticket over.
It has all the instructions
on the back.”
And then you just left the room.
And suddenly,
instead of punishing me,
you basically said,
“If you’re, you know,
if you’re responsible enough
to have a driver’s license,
you are responsible enough
to figure out what to do
with a traffic ticket.”
And you didn’t punish me.
You let the law punish me.
And then, again, you just put
all the decision making
right back in my lap.
I don’t even know
if you remember that.
Dr. Stanley: Well,
see you kept loving me instead
of the policeman.
Andy: Well see,
this is another really important
principle, because instead
of inserting yourself into the
equation, you took my position
or you took my side to say,
“You know what Andy?
I think you’re smart enough
to figure this out.
I think you’ll figure out how
to pay for the traffic ticket.
It’s right there on the back
of the ticket, you know.
Good luck!”
And again,
here I am all these years later,
I can remember
where we were standing
in our house, in Tucker.
So, early on, just putting
the decision-making pressure,
the appropriate pressure,
on us was extraordinary,
and I do think it was
an overflow of the fact
that you knew,
you remember growing up.
Hey!
You had to learn
those things early.
And then, one other thing,
and you just alluded to it.
You did a great job
intentionally, taking,
you know, reminding
my sister and I, Becky and I,
that ultimately, we weren’t
accountable to you anyway.
That ultimately,
we were accountable to God.
Dr. Stanley: That’s right.
Andy: And the way you taught
us that, again, we would ask you
a question or, not advice,
but a decision, you know,
we had to make.
And you would say,
“Have you prayed about it?
Have you prayed about it?”
And, that’s was so frustrating!
Because I’m like,
I don’t need to pray about it,
I just need you to help me
make the decision.
But you consistently said,
“Ask God and, you know,
whatever you feel like
the Lord wants you do.”
Do you remember
one particular occasion when
you told me to pray about it
and God told me the opposite
of what God had told you?
Dr. Stanley: Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Andy: You know what incident
I’m talking about?
Dr. Stanley: I did–
Was there only one?
Andy: But when the–
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
No, there were actually several.
But I was sixteen
and my favorite recording artist
was coming to town.
It was a concert.
Back then,
there weren’t many concerts.
You did not particularly love
my choice of music at the time.
Dr. Stanley: Oh,
that’s right.
Andy: Yep.
You remember that part.
And so, this band was coming
to Atlanta, and the concert was
on Sunday night.
Remember this?
Dr. Stanley: Yes, I do.
Andy: And we had Sunday night
Church, and on Sunday night,
we went to Church.
And so, I’m saying, “Dad,
I want to go to a concert.”
You didn’t really want me to go
to the concert anyway.
But now, I’m going to go
on Sunday night.
People will find out.
You know, the preacher’s kids
went to the concert
instead of going to church.
And you said, “Well,
why don’t you pray about it.”
Remember that?
Dr. Stanley: I do.
Andy: And I remember Mom
was like.
“No, no, no, no.
Don’t let him pray about it.
You just need–we just need
to tell him not to go!”
And you were so consistent.
It was, “Nope.
If you think that’s okay,
you know, you pray about it.”
So, I did.
Sixteen years old,
and I didn’t hear a voice,
so I figured it was okay.
Remember that?
And you took a little bit
of pressure at church.
You know,
“How can you let your son–
He’s being a bad example.”
And so, I went to that concert.
And do you remember
what you and Mom prayed
while I was at the concert?
You told me later that
you prayed that we would have
a miserable time.
Dr. Stanley: Yes,
that’s right.
Yes, we did.
Andy: Remember that.
You prayed that we would have
a miserable time and
we would never want to go back.
And God didn’t answer
that prayer either.
Dr. Stanley: Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Andy: I grew up wanting to,
you know, be a rock star.
So, anyway.
But the point being,
even though, you know, when
you put that much responsibility
in a child’s hands, you were
wise enough to leave it there.
You didn’t take it back.
You didn’t say, “Well,
God didn’t answer your prayer
the way I wanted Him to.
I’m going to withdraw that.”
So, those lessons were
so instrumental.
And it’s just always curious to
me growing up without a father
that, intuitively, you figured
some of those things out.
Dr. Stanley: Well,
I would usually say, “Lord, now,
in this given situation,
what’s the wisest thing to do?”
And I knew that if I’d made
all the decisions, and gave you
all the answers, you’d never
have to do it yourself.
And at some point,
and remember this,
growing up I had nobody to ask,
in other words, but my Mom.
But a lot of situations,
she wouldn’t have
the answer for us.
So, I figured if I trusted God
to give you wisdom,
then I believed
that you would listen to Him
and do what he said do,
and look at you now.
You are not a rock star!
You’re much more important
than a rock star.
Andy: Well, look at me now.
It wasn’t a straight line.
In fact, I’ve heard you say
before publicly that you–
I don’t–
These are my words
and not yours,
so, you can correct me.
Something like, “I never went
to bed worrying about you
and Becky or what you and Becky
were up to.”
You just placed us
in the hands of our capable
Heavenly Father and–
Dr. Stanley: Well,
I knew that I had taught you
the right thing to do
in every situation
that I knew about, and that
I would trust God to either
make you successful at that
or make you so miserable,
you wouldn’t want
to do it again,
and it worked.
Andy: It did ultimately work.
And I tried to do the same thing
with my three kids.
So, I appreciate that.
The other thing that you
taught me that became again,
you appreciate when you’re young
but you really appreciate it
when you’re older.
You never prioritized work
over family.
Dr. Stanley: No.
Andy: Now, that is
challenging for anyone.
But it seems to be especially
challenging for pastors.
So many pastors love the church
and serve the church, and
we’ve seen this happen, right?
With pastors, especially men,
who just for whatever reason
neglect their kids.
And you–
I never felt like
I was competing with work.
Or specifically,
I never felt like
I was competing with the church.
Again, how–do you remember
your thought process in all that
because we took long vacations.
In fact, one time
I can’t even imagine this.
We had an eighteen-foot
travel trailer,
eighteen-foot travel trailer.
We went out west for five weeks.
Okay, I love my children.
I can’t–
Dr. Stanley: Ha, ha, ha, ha,
ha, ha, ha.
Andy: I can’t imagine
a five-week vacation
in an eight–pulling an
eighteen-foot travel trailer.
But that’s the way
you prioritized us.
So, what was your thinking
in all of that?
Dr. Stanley: Well,
first of all, I wanted to go.
Andy: Ha, ha ha, ha, ha.
Dr. Stanley: And secondly–
Andy: That might have had
something to do with it.
Dr. Stanley: Yeah, it did.
And secondly, I wanted to share
what I loved, the outdoors,
and the woods, and the forest,
and the glaciers,
and everything.
I wanted to share that
with you all.
And so, as far as the church was
concerned, it was more important
to me, for us to be together,
regardless of what people
thought.
And so, I enjoyed it.
And what I tried to do is
to give y’all the experiences
that I wish I’d had when–
if I’d had a father, and to go
all the places we went.
And if you think
of all the things that we did.
And the one thing I loved
about the travel trailer was,
we were all together.
Andy: We were very close
together.
It was just eighteen feet.
Dr. Stanley: But remember
this, when we went to Naples,
we had the whole beach.
That’s before they got built up.
Police would drive up and down
the beach about once a day.
We had that whole beach
to ourselves.
Travel trailer,
we’d cook outside,
we had a fantastic time.
I loved every minute of it,
and I figured y’all would
never forget it.
And we happen to be there
at the season
that the sand dollars came in.
Andy: Yep.
That was the year.
Dr. Stanley: And we were
picking up very small ones,
large ones.
And those are times in my life
that I enjoyed them
just as much you all did.
And at that point, I didn’t care
what people thought.
Well, you should have done this
and you should have done that.
You know what?
You only have one life.
These kids are only going to be
yours at this age.
We’re going to live it up
in order to enjoy one another.
And you have not forgotten it.
Andy: No.
And again, those kinds of things
left an impression in terms
of priorities and values
and obviously it wasn’t a dig
at church or something
to undermine our faith.
It just showed the priority
that you gave.
Well, your priorities were
where they needed to be.
Dr. Stanley: Well, I wanted
you all to feel like you had me,
not me and the church.
You had me for thirty days
or whatever it might be.
Andy: five weeks.
Dr. Stanley: And I just
wanted it to be unforgettable
times so that one of these days
you could look back,
as you are, and say,
“What an awesome time we had.”
Not calling this–
For example, if they would
call me from church,
sometimes I would call them
back, sometimes I wouldn’t.
Now, we didn’t have
cell phones then.
So, I could say,
“Well, you called me?”
Andy: Yeah.
There was no way to get,
really when we would travel,
when we would camp,
we again sometimes,
we went to trailer parks,
you know.
But a lot of time,
we would literally, back then,
we would just find a spot
in the woods or on the beach
and we were
completely unplugged.
Dr. Stanley: That’s right.
Andy: One other incident, and
you alluded to this principal,
when Louie Giglio and I, we–
Louie Giglio, many of you know,
how we grew up together.
He grew up at my Dad’s church.
In fact, his family was
at First Baptist Atlanta
before we got there.
And so, Louie and I became close
friends through Middle School
and High School, and we used
to skip church quite frequently.
We would go to Sunday School
because that’s where
the girls were.
And then, instead of going
to church, we would walk down
the street and there was
a big restaurant, The Varsity,
if you’ve ever been to Atlanta.
And my Dad was
on live television,
on channel five, I believe.
And so, we would literally
stand up on a chair, change
the channel to find the sermon.
And then, we would just talk and
eat hot dogs and listen to just
enough of the sermon so that
I could get in the car after
church and say, “You know Dad,
the story about the dog,
or the thing I–”
You know?
So he would think
I’d been in church.
Very deceitful.
So, on one occasion, you–
I know you remember this,
somebody went to your–
We called them secretaries
back then,
to your administrative assistant
and said she had seen me
and Louie headed down
to The Varsity to skip church.
Do you remember this incident?
Dr. Stanley: Yes, I do.
Andy: So, here’s how
it happened.
So, I’m in the back seat.
There’s just the two of us.
We’re driving home after church.
And so, I can’t see his face.
So, I’m seating right
behind him.
I remember this.
And you said, “Andy, someone saw
you and Louie leaving the church
property, and looked like you
were headed toward The Varsity
instead of coming to church.”
So, of course, I’m thinking,
“Oh no!”
You know, it’s like
the traffic ticket thing.
“Oh no, I’m in big trouble.”
But you didn’t punish me.
You didn’t expect more of me
than other parents expected
of their kids.
But again, here I am all these
years later because it said
to me that I was a priority and
that you again, you weren’t–
you didn’t feel like
your reputation as a pastor
hinged on my behavior
or on Becky’s behavior.
And that’s a good thing.
Because there were some–
there were some rough years
for some of us.
Anyway, so again,
just so grateful for the way
that you were a father,
even though you didn’t have
a father to learn from.
And that is a guiding principle
for all the single parents
out there who wonder.
Because you turned out great
by the way.
So, for all the single parents,
it’s challenging.
And when Sandra and I talk to
parents, the first thing we say
is, even though, you know, we’re
going to talk about parenting
from the standpoint
of a two-parent home,
neither my father
nor Sandra’s father grew up
with their biological father
in the home.
And yet, they turned out
to be fabulous fathers.
So, in that way, you were
such a great example for even
more people than maybe
you might have imagined.
Now, I want to change
the subject if that’s okay.
You grew up poor.
I think that’s a fair statement.
But you have
always been generous.
I mean some of the earliest
lessons you taught us
had to do with money.
So, how in the world is someone
who is raised with very,
very, very little–?
In fact, some of my favorite
stories that you told me
growing up about growing up
were just how little you had.
How you–Christmas stories,
I mean, birthday stories
where you–it was kind of
heart breaking honestly,
and yet your whole life
you’ve been generous.
How did you learn to be generous
having grown up with so little?
Because so many people,
they go the opposite direction.
Dr. Stanley: I think I have
to give my mother credit
for that.
For example, every once
in a while, back in those days,
some little boy
or a couple of little kids
would come up and ask
and knock on the door and ask,
“Do you all have any bread?”
My mom always gave them
something.
And sometimes, I’d look and
I’d say, “Well, we’re not going
to have any left I don’t think.”
She said “No, we’re going to–
we’re going to give them this.”
My mom taught me to be generous,
to be kind.
And I knew she made nine dollars
and ten cents a week for
forty hours in the cotton mill.
Andy: Wow!
Dr. Stanley: And she was
always generous,
she didn’t give much, but this–
There was something about her,
she had to give something.
And so,
I think I saw that in her.
So, when it came time to talk
about tithing income, I never
had a problem with that.
And I have been blessed,
and blessed, and blessed,
and blessed, and blessed.
And I would have to say watching
her give a little bit of what
we didn’t have much of said
something to me deep down
inside, because I noticed that
afterwards we’d always seem
to have enough.
Andy: And again, this was
her faith in action in terms
of just trusting God to provide
for the two of you.
Dr. Stanley: Right.
Andy: Yeah.
So, what’s the connection
between your generosity
and the local church?
Because that’s always been
a passion for you.
Dr. Stanley: Right.
So, I just realized that pretty
early, I couldn’t out give God.
No, much–
How much I gave,
what the motivation was,
I couldn’t out give him.
He always blessed me over
and over and over again.
So, I wanted to help
other people,
and I want to be sure when
I stood up and preached to other
people about giving, that I knew
in my heart I gave it the best
God wanted me to give,
ever how much it was.
So, you know, it’s not been hard
for me to give.
Giving is just part of being
who I am, and I think about
how God’s blessed me.
He said, “Give and it shall be
given to you, good measure,
pressed down, shaken together.”
I believed that.
And I can look back in
about over all these years
and realize, He’s blessed me
far more than I deserve.
Andy: That phrase that
you just said, I grew up hearing
my whole life.
“You can’t out give God.
You can’t out give God.
You can’t out give God.”
I remember, I’m not going to go
into detail because
it’s so personal, but I remember
an incident, I was a freshman
in college when there was
an incident and you basically
had a choice.
And this happened two or three
times to where you could give
what you felt God had impressed
on your heart to give.
But it was going to cos–
it was going to be actual
a sacrificial gift.
And this is one of the great
things about you as well.
You would talk about this
with the family.
You would say, this–
“I feel like God wants us to do
this for this organization,”
or you know, something
that’s going on at church,
“And if we give this much money,
here’s what we’re going to have
to do as a family.”
And you–we would pray
about those things.
And, you know, I can remember
as a college freshman thinking,
that’s a lot of money
and you know what’s that–
Again, you lead
through your generosity.
And again,
you can’t out give God.
You can’t out give God.
And so, you taught me to tithe.
And like you,
giving the first dime
of every dollar I’ve ever made,
my whole life has been easy.
And it has been easy for me to
stand up in front of our church
and to teach percentage giving
because you taught me
that as a child.
And because, I’ve again–
It was a habit
we formed so early.
Like you say, you never miss
the money that you give.
And you never regret
what you’ve done with the money
that you give.
So, switching gears again.
Unless there is something else
you want to say about it.
Dr. Stanley: Ah, that’s fine.
Andy: Growing up, you know,
you would lay down with us
at night and we would always
want you to tell us stories
about growing up.
And so, I would like to ask you
to share two specific stories.
And then, I’m going to share
a story.
So, let me think, the first
story I want you to talk about,
this kind of relates to money.
Talk a little bit about your
paper route, because people kid
about, “Oh in the old days,
you know, I had to walk so many
miles in the snow, uphill both
ways,” but you literally, that
was a literal story for you.
So, your Mom is having to work,
she’s making about ten dollars
a week.
So, you had to go to work early.
So, I think the story of how you
developed your paper route
is fascinating.
And we don’t really have paper
boys any more like we used to.
But that was a, talk a little
bit about that because that’s
part of what transitioned you
to the next season of your life.
Dr. Stanley: We had
two newspapers.
One of them was just on Monday
morning, since we didn’t have a
regular paper on Monday morning.
And one of them was on Thursday.
And so, I kept praying for God
to show me something to do.
And so–
Andy: To make–
have some income.
Dr. Stanley: To make
some money, Yeah.
So, I found out I could possibly
get a paper route.
I only made about
four something, four dollars
or something like that.
But that was for two days
a week.
And it was a long route
and I had a lot of papers.
But I said, “Okay God, I’ll–
This is what I’ll do.”
And then I kept that for a year.
And I watched this fellow
who had the large paper route,
morning and evening, every day,
except Sunday afternoon
and Monday morning.
Andy: And you were walking,
right?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah, walking.
And it just so happened
that all the streets I had
were all downhill.
And, but it was okay.
So, I saw this fellow
who had paper routes and made
about twenty dollars a week.
Or it was sixteen
to twenty something.
Andy: A week.
Dr. Stanley: A week.
And so, I said, “Well, if you
ever give up your paper route,
I’d like to have it.”
So, he said, “Well, what are you
willing to give me for it?”
And that was not proper.
You didn’t buy paper.
Andy: You didn’t sell paper
routes, right.
Dr. Stanley: So, he said,
“Well, I will sell to you
for a hundred and twenty-five
dollars.”
So, I figured that out.
A hundred and twenty-five
dollars, I’d make that
back before too long.
But my stepfather went
to the bank with me
and I borrowed a hundred
and twenty-five dollars.
The only time
I ever borrowed any money.
And so, I bought the route.
I started delivering newspapers.
I had one long street.
Andy: I remember you
driving me down this street
when we would go visit
my Grandmother.
And you say it was downhill.
There was nothing flat
in Danville, Virginia.
Everything was a hill.
But anyway.
Dr. Stanley: Anyway, so–
And so, what, first thing I did
was make sure I tithed
how much money I made.
And so, I took papers for about,
well until I went to college.
Andy: Yeah.
Dr. Stanley: And I saw
how God had prospered me and
helped me, and I could buy some
of my own clothes for a change.
And I had a little extra money.
So, then of course, I came
to the whole situation of, “How
am I going to go to college,
making sixteen dollars a week?”
It wouldn’t get you in college.
But I watched God always provide
in ways that
I couldn’t figure out.
In other words,
I could never have figured out
how to go to college
making that kind of money.
And so–
Andy: And this was the second
story I wanted you to tell
about how you got to college.
Because, the point of this is
your confidence in God, and your
faith in God was not passive.
And this is one of the things
you taught me.
You don’t sit back
and ask God to do something
and then just wait.
Your work ethic has always
been extraordinary.
At the same time,
carving out the right amount
of time for family.
Somehow you figured all that out
on your own.
So, you have always modeled, you
work as hard as you can possibly
work, and then you trust God
to honor your hard work.
And so, once again, this is what
happened with the paper route.
And then, that leads us to this
next story as you’re trying to
figure out, how in the world are
you going to go to college.
So–
Dr. Stanley: Well, because
I look at sixteen to twenty
dollars a week and I think,
“God, I can’t even get
to Richmond, Virginia,
let alone go to college.”
And so, one night my friend and
I were standing on the street
corner just talking, and
the pastor of the Baptist Church
came by, and I’d only been–
I’d only been a member of that
church probably about a year
and he didn’t know me very well.
And so, when he was coming down
the street,
my friend Julian said,
“Mr. Hammick,
come over here just a moment.”
And so, he telling him
what I was doing,
and want to go to school.
And the Lord had called me
to preach,
and I didn’t have any money.
“Could you help me?”
And he didn’t know me,
I had been going to church
but not very long
at that particular church.
So, he said,
“Well, go by to see me.”
So, I went by to see him.
And we talked for probably
an hour or so.
To make a long story short,
I got a four-year scholarship
to the University of Richmond
with no explanation.
I couldn’t–In other words–
Andy: Well, he made
a few calls and got you into
college on that scholarship.
But again, there it is again.
You do what you know to do.
God brings the right person
along.
And then here–
And when I hear you
tell that story,
I’ve heard it so many times,
little did he know,
little did he know that he was
the connector between, you know,
this kid, you know, who has
a paper route, who had just
finished High School,
who didn’t have any money.
He was the connector
between that unknown kid.
And if I could just, you know,
brag a bit,
Dr. Charles F. Stanley,
who’s preached the Gospel
all over the world.
And at some point, years ago,
you were at–through short wave
radio, radio and television,
you were in every single
major city in the world,
every single day of the week.
And when I think about what hung
in the balance, potentially,
of his decision to look
at this kid, and apparently,
there was some sort
of internal prompting.
I mean, how many kids
in Danville, Virginia,
needed a scholarship to college?
A lot, right?
And yet for some reason, he took
the time to give you the time,
and then,
after that conversation,
leveraged his connections
to give you that opportunity.
And what an extraordinary role
he played in your life.
Dr. Stanley: Certainly.
Andy: And He had,
he had no idea.
And I have seen you do that
for so many people
through the years.
Again, you can’t do everything
for everybody.
But as I say, you know,
do for one what you wish
you could do for everyone.
And he did for one what
I’m sure he wished he could do
for everyone.
And you have done that as well.
And it always makes me stop
and think when somebody asks
for something specific,
or something I don’t really have
the time or resources to do.
I think, we have no idea who God
brings into our lives, but to be
sensitive to that still
small voice, and to do for one,
what of course,
we can’t do for everyone.
Okay, now I want to tell
a story.
This is my, maybe my favorite
story about my Dad, and it was
such a defining, really,
a defining moment for me.
So, you had been nominated
to be the president of
the Southern Baptist Convention.
This was your–the first year.
And there were some people
who did not want you to be
the president of
the Southern Baptist Convention.
Dr. Stanley:
Forty-nine percent didn’t.
Andy: Yeah.
Forty-nine percent of about
forty thousand delegates I think
that showed up that year.
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
Andy: And so,
we were at a particular school
and the president of that school
was one of the people
who really did not want my Dad.
He doesn’t–he didn’t think
my Dad was qualified to lead
the Southern Baptist Convention.
So, they had a press conference.
And we were in a big board room.
There were–
It was packed full of the press.
I mean this was like a big deal.
We were in Fort Worth,
and I snuck in the back
and stood against the wall.
Because I lived in Dallas,
and I’d driven over.
And you were on one side
of the table and he–
this gentleman, was on
the other side of the table.
And he lit into you.
I mean, it was hard for me
to not want to come
across the table, you know,
and ring his neck.
He was so critical of you.
It was cruel.
And there’s all these
microphones, and you know,
people leaning in.
And I remember standing there
thinking–
Also, I could–I was across
where I could see your face.
And your face was so passive,
you were so calm.
I remember thinking,
is he even listening?
Because this guy was literally
red in the face, and you were
just standing there,
sitting there just–
I mean it was amazing.
So, when he finished,
Peggy Wehmeyer,
I still remember her name,
channel eight news in Dallas,
leaned across the table
with a microphone and she asked
this question, because
the election was the next day,
I believe.
She said,
“Dr. Stanley, do you think
you will win tomorrow?”
And you said,
and it’s still emotional,
with this extraordinary
peaceful look on your face,
you said, “If I win, I win,
and if I lose, I win,
because my responsibility is
to obey God and to trust Him
with the consequences.”
And you could have heard
a pin drop.
And of course, your opponent
had no response to that.
Because you had entrusted
yourself as you have done
your entire life, into the hands
of your Heavenly Father.
“If I win tomorrow, I win,
but if I lose I still win,
because the reason
I’m running is
because I feel like this is
what God has called me to do.”
You want to comment
on that a little bit?
Because I know you remember
that moment.
Dr. Stanley: Right.
Well, it was a tumultuous time
in the convention and
largest convention in history.
And these, all the newspapers,
The Baptist papers were writing
and–
Andy: And the secular press,
they were all into it back then.
Yeah.
Dr. Stanley: And they found
that I’d had been a Pentecostal,
hadn’t always been
a Southern Baptist,
and on and on and on they went.
And I wouldn’t answer
anybody’s criticism,
and I just kept quiet.
And so, I took out a four by six
card and I folded it,
and I wrote on it, “Wait.”
Andy: You had with you
in that meeting?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
Andy: I never heard that.
Dr. Stanley: I just sat that
in front of me.
Andy: On the table?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
So that whatever they ask me,
don’t give them a quick answer,
just wait.
And so, they were just giving me
a hard time telling me
why I couldn’t be the president.
Well, the truth is,
I didn’t want to be.
Andy: Well, that’s
the other part of the story.
He really didn’t want to be.
Dr. Stanley: No.
Andy: I mean, this was just
going to be a big hassle.
You had a big church, you had
a lot going on, and yeah.
This was not your–
This wasn’t something
you had an ambition toward.
Dr. Stanley: So,
I put on there, “Wait”, so that
whatever they asked me,
don’t give them a quick answer.
Just wait.
And so, they asked me,
“Well, suppose you lose.”
I said I can’t lose.
Well, they laughed
and shoved each other, you know.
And so, they asked, “Oh, what
do you mean you can’t lose?”
I said well, “If I win, I win,
and if I lose, I still win,
because my goal is to obey God,
not to be the president.”
Dead silence.
Andy: Yep, that was it.
That was the moment.
And again,
I was in graduate school.
And again, I’d heard you
say those things,
teach those things,
but to watch you apply it
with all of that pressure and
with all the energy in the room.
It really was, it was just–
It really, really was
a defining moment I think for me
in my Faith, and just in terms
of how I’ve chosen to lead, so.
That was me–
Dr. Stanley: And I did win.
Ha!
Andy: And you did win!
And they were not happy!
Dr. Stanley: No.
They weren’t happy.
Andy: Right.
Dr. Stanley: And it didn’t
matter to me because I had
one goal, obey God and leave
all the consequences to Him.
Andy: Yeah.
And that leads us
to another topic.
I want to talk a little bit
about your grandfather.
So, your Father died
when you were nine months old.
Your grandfather lived
in Siler City, North Carolina,
and you had an opportunity
to spend some time with him.
He was also a pastor
or a preacher.
And he had a tremendous
influence on you.
Can you talk a little bit
about that, that time with him?
Because, again, it’s one
of those defining moments that
we don’t know it’s happening.
But he sensed something in you
and decided to invest in you.
Those were some interesting
conversations you had with him.
Dr. Stanley: I had only
seen him twice before.
I was getting ready to go to
college, and I thought,
I’m going to go see
my Granddad who’s been a pastor
all these years.
So, he and I would sit
on his back porch, screened-in
back porch, in a swing.
And we just–and I just wanted
to hear him talk.
He talked about the Bible
and characters in the body and
sermons, and on and on he went.
And one of the things he said
was, we were talking about
being obedient to God.
And he said, “If God tells you
to run your head through a
brick wall, when you get there,
God will make a hole for it.”
Which is his way of saying,
he didn’t interpret that,
but the way I understood it was,
“Well, God’ll assume
responsibility for whatever I do
that’s obedient to Him.”
Andy: Yep
Dr. Stanley: So,
I walked away.
And I remember riding on one
of those old Trailway buses home
and thinking in my mind,
“Obey God and not–”
You know,
I had all kind of thoughts then.
“Obey God and leave
all the consequences to Him.”
I thought,
“Well, you can’t lose that way.
Obey God and leave
all the consequences to Him.”
And so, I would have to say,
that is the statement
that has governed my life.
Haven’t been perfect of course,
governed my life
all these years.
From big decision
to little decisions,
obey Him and leave
the consequences to Him.
You can’t lose.
Andy: Right.
That is the win.
It’s to go–
This is what you taught me,
to be able to go to bed at night
and look up at the ceiling
with a clear conscience,
and to know that things
are good between me
and my Heavenly Father.
That’s the win.
Dr. Stanley: That’s right.
Andy: That’s the goal.
Because we can’t control
outcomes anyway.
And every time we try to control
outcomes, we just mess it up and
make things more complicated.
So, and again, here is the
gentleman who in that–you know,
just a few days, I think you
were about seventeen years old
you told me, when this happened.
You had four or five days
with him, and he left
his fingerprints–
Dr. Stanley: Yes.
Andy: All over your life.
His name, you’re going to think
I’m making this up,
but I have a witness.
His name was
George Washington Stanley,
right?
Dr. Stanley: That’s right.
Andy: So, your grandfather is
George Washington Stanley,
and little did he know that
that little bit of investment
in his grandson’s life,
here we are,
all these years later telling
these stories and quoting him.
So again, we never know
who God’s going to bring along.
And when there’s that internal
nudge to give this person
a little extra attention,
give this person
some of your time.
Again, we never know
how God’s going to use that.
Dr. Stanley: No.
Andy: And once again.
So, switching gears
a couple more times.
I want to talk
about perseverance.
This has been one of the themes
in your life, not because you
chose it, but because you didn’t
have, well, you did have a
choice, but you were oftentimes
left with two options:
Give up or persevere.
You’ve been through church
splits, betrayal, you’ve had
some health challenges.
And as you know, I’ve had
a front row seat to all of this,
going all the way back to Miami,
you know, to moving to Bartow,
Florida, where we lived for
eighteen months, the challenge
of coming to Atlanta.
When my Dad came
to the First Baptist Church
of Atlanta, he came
as the Associate Pastor,
not the Pastor.
And see if I get this right.
And when they showed him
his office, you sat down
and you went to open the drawer
to the desk and–
Dr. Stanley: All the drawers
were locked
and no key.
Andy: All the drawers were
locked, no key, and it was like,
“Hey, welcome to the church.”
And so, there was so–
There, you know, there are
so many stories related
to that difficult transition.
But you’ve always persevered.
You’ve always gotten back up.
You’ve always leaned in
and just kept putting one foot
in front of the other through
extraordinary challenges
that we don’t even have time
to talk about.
And some cases, they’re really
nobody’s business.
But talk just a little bit about
perseverance, because there are
people watching,
people listening who especially
in this season
are going through some really,
really difficult times.
And you just feel like, “Hey,
you know, I never get a break.
It never goes my way.
What’s the point in praying?
God’s not listening.
What’s the point
in remaining faithful?
God’s not responding
to my faith.”
What, do you say to that person?
And where did you find
the energy or the confidence
to just keep getting back up
and moving forward?
Dr. Stanley: Well, because I
believed with all my heart, if I
obey God, He’d help me through
whatever that was, and I won’t
get into all those stories,
but time after time after time,
I watched God answer my prayers.
Sometimes I thought Lord,
“You are late,
You’re getting late.”
But He always came through
at the right time no matter
what the situation was.
And I’ve got lots
of those illustrations.
But I–and one thing also
that helped me was,
I was excited to see
what God was going to do next.
In other words–
Andy: Even in the down times?
Dr. Stanley: In the down
times, I think, “Okay Lord.
I’ve come this far.
I’ve done what you told me
to do.
It doesn’t look very good,
but I’m going to trust you, and
I’m going to see what happens.”
And without fail,
God always brought me through
every difficult situation.
Some of them looked absolutely
impossible, but I thought, “God,
You’re who You say You are.
I’m going to trust You
to prove it.”
Andy: Wow!
Can you, or will you tell
the story–?
And this is a little bit
off subject, about the Easter
message that you didn’t have
the night before Easter?
Dr. Stanley: Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Andy: Now, if–for some
of you this isn’t going to be
very relevant.
But for those of us in ministry,
this is a terrifying story.
And the context was you,
I guess you had just begun
a media ministry.
In Touch had just launched.
And, you know, broadcast
ministry is very expensive.
And there were multiple people
doing broadcast ministries.
And they spent a good portion
of their time on the air
asking for money.
And so, In Touch began to grow,
and you were at that place
where, “Okay, we need resources
if this is going to work.”
And then, it was Easter.
Dr. Stanley: Easter coming.
Well, usually by Thursday,
I’ll have an outline.
Andy: For the following
Sunday?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
So, the Thursday came
and I didn’t have anything.
It’s like God shut up
everything.
Andy: And this was
Easter Sunday?
Dr. Stanley: Easter Sunday
coming.
Andy: This is the Super Bowl
for us, right?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
And Friday, no sermon.
Saturday morning, no sermon.
“Lord, now what,
Heavenly Father?”
I’m stumbling around
trying to figure out
what am I going to do next.
And Saturday morning, Saturday
afternoon, Saturday night.
I’m on my face on the floor
saying, “God, I’m going to be
horribly embarrassed.”
I don’t–you know that
I could pull up an old sermon
but you won’t let me do that.
So finally, I got on the floor
and stretched out and just said
God, “Okay, I don’t know
what you’re saying,
but please say it!”
Andy: Quick!
Dr. Stanley: Quick.
And I wasn’t even thinking
about this.
It’s like the Lord said to me,
“You must never ask
for one penny on the television
or radio at all.
You must never, never spend
any time asking for money.
You trust me, and I’ll determine
how far this ministry goes.”
So, I struggled with that
a little bit and I thought,
“Okay, God.
You have always answered
my prayers in some fashion.
I commit myself right now
never to ask for a penny,
and I’ll just see what You do.”
Well, I’ve never asked
for a penny.
And I don’t have to tell anybody
how far and wide it’s gone.
Andy: Yeah.
But the pastors who are watching
this are thinking,
“But what happened Easter.”
So, what happened
after you made that decision?
Dr. Stanley: And the next
morning, I was all fired up!
Andy: Wow!
Okay, we’re about to wrap
this up.
I want to just talk about
something fun for a moment.
You have a hobby that you are
so passionate about that I think
at times it rivals your love
for ministry.
So, talk a little bit about
the hobby that God has used
to fuel you and to energize you,
reenergize you and allow you
to see the world.
Dr. Stanley: Well, it has
allowed me to see the world,
if photography is my hobby.
And I think one of the primary
reasons is, I’m always looking
through the camera lens
and seeing what God’s done.
I’ve been places from
the South Pole to, you name it.
And I’m always looking
through the lens, and I’m always
thinking, “Wow, God!”
Whether it’s fall leaves,
or snow-covered mountains,
or beautiful creeks and rivers,
and all the places I’ve been.
What it’s done, it has given me
the breaks that I needed.
And when I go somewhere to
take a break, I don’t look back.
I don’t think about, “I wonder
what’s happening here or there,
and so forth.”
So, I’m very, very grateful to
God that He has made that a part
of my life, and it’s just been,
it’s been like nourishment
to my soul.
I see God.
In other words,
it isn’t photography over here
and preaching over here.
I just see God in all of that.
And so, I couldn’t be more
grateful for all the places
I’ve been, things I’ve seen.
Andy: And you are really,
really good at it.
And many people have seen
some of your photography, but if
you’ve ever visited In Touch
where he has some of his
favorite photographs displayed,
they’re spectacular.
And of course, you’ve done
the calendar year after year
after year,
and it really is intimidating.
I–you know, it’s–
You’re so good at it.
And every once in a while,
he’d say “Hey, let’s–
I want to take you
on a photography trip.
We’ll go on a short one,
ten days.”
I’m like, “Wait!
You’re the five-week vacation
Dad.
It’s a short–”
Ten days isn’t a short trip,
but it’s been amazing.
We have your pictures hanging
around in our home, and so many
other people do as well.
So, it’s just great that you’ve
had that and it really
has not just been an outlet,
but it really has become part of
the ministry as you’ve been able
to share those pictures and
talk about some of the stories
behind some of those pictures.
Dr. Stanley: And see,
it’s really not separate,
because here’s a sermon
over here that God’s given,
and here’s a view of something
that people had passed by
and never see that I see.
Andy: Yep.
Dr. Stanley: So,
it’s all part of the same story.
Andy: Alright,
let’s wrap up with this.
One of the other statements
I grew up with is this.
“Andy, the most important thing
in the world, the most
important thing in the world is
your personal relationship
with Jesus Christ.”
Dr. Stanley: That’s right.
Andy: “Andy, no matter
what else happens, no matter
what else is going on, you know,
good or bad, the most important
thing in the world, the most
important thing in your life is
your personal relationship
with Jesus Christ.”
Now, many people when they hear
that, they think about a moment
in time that they put
their faith in Christ
and became a Christian.
But that’s not what
you’re talking about.
You’re talking about this
on-going intimacy with God,
that it is the most
important thing in our lives.
So, as we wrap up,
would you talk just a little bit
about that?
And I think your story,
your story growing up gives us
context for why that’s always
been important to you.
But, what do you–
What do you say to the person
who they don’t think
in terms of a relationship with
God or intimacy with Christ?
What do you mean when you say
that the most important thing
in your life is your personal
relationship with Jesus Christ?
Dr. Stanley: Well,
I mean exactly what that says.
That is,
we all have relationships
with different people.
And having a personal
relationship with God means,
I’m connected twenty-four hours
a day to the Creator, to the
Savior, to the Lord, the Master,
the one Who walks with me,
provides my needs, gives me joy,
gives me strength to deal
with issues in life.
In other words, a personal
relationship with Him
isn’t something that comes
and goes when you go to church.
You wake up with Him.
You go to sleep with Him,
talking to Him.
You wake up talking to Him.
All during the day You see Him
in this, see Him in that.
You’re interpreting life from
the view point that God has
taught you to look at things,
and that viewpoint is going
to be always scriptural.
He’ll never tell you to do
something that’s unscriptural.
So, what that does is,
it makes it possible for you
to be happy in difficult times
and feeling confident and bold,
and whatever is going on,
you’re going to make it.
You’ll get through with it.
So, it provides this–
the foundation for my happiness,
my joy.
And I am a happy man.
I am a joyous person.
And so, I just see all that as
a part of God building something
in me, teaching me how to
understand Him better and I come
home excited about something
I’m going to show you that
God’s made, that God has done.
So, I’m happy.
Andy: Yep.
It’s the most important thing
in your life is your personal
relationship with Jesus Christ.
Dr. Stanley: Is your personal
relationship is Jesus Christ.
Andy: Well, Dad, as we close,
I would love for you to pray
for us, and I received
so many things from you.
One of the things
I didn’t get is your voice.
People love your voice,
and I love your voice.
And so, I would love for you
to close by using that fabulous
voice to close us in prayer.
Would you do that?
Dr. Stanley: Well, thank you
for giving me this time with you
and with all the folks
at In Touch, and thank you
for growing up
and being who you are.
And I couldn’t be more proud
of you and Beck and how God
has used both of you all
in the most wonderful way.
And so, when I look back
and think, “Well, Lord,
I must have made
a lot of mistakes, but you must
have overlooked them, Lord,
because look what you’ve done.”
So, I want to say thank you
for being Andy.
Andy: Well,
I appreciate that.
It’s my honor.
I don’t know who else to be.
Will you pray for us?
Dr. Stanley: Yeah.
Father, how grateful we are
that you never change.
Awesome God that you are.
Everything Your Word promises
You are.
You demonstrate it day after day
after day.
Would you bless this time
that we’ve had together?
May it be an awesome
encouragement to parents
and people, Lord,
who are raising their kids
in difficult situations.
And people who are just trying
to decide Lord, what kind of God
You are, I pray that all that
we’ve talked about will
help them to be able to realize
You’re an Awesome God, gracious,
good, loving God, willing
to take us through difficulty,
hardship and pain, willing
to always bring us through.
Blessed, blessed
by Your graciousness
and kindness toward us.
Thank you, Father,
for this time together,
in Jesus’ name, amen.
[music]