The Difference with Matt & Kendal Hagee – “Birth Order Matters”

Dr. Kevin Leman joins The Difference to discuss why birth order matters. The first child is the one parents practice on, the one parents worry about the most. The second-born (and subsequent children) have buffers between them and their parents, called siblings. The first born might pair off with the third or fourth born; as the years pass, parents lighten up. What does birth order mean for each child, and what each might become as an adult?

from heggy Ministries Television Studios

today on the difference we welcome

internationally known psychologist

humorist and award-winning New York

bestselling author Dr Kevin Leman the

firstborn you worry about everything

they eat and by the time the fourth born

rolls around you grab some food throw it

on the floor say dinner’s ready dinner’s

ready yeah I’ll tell you I’m not a

theologian but I figured it out I think

jesus’ mother gave Jesus the look The

look

how would you like to know why you are

the way you are did you know birth order

has an effect on your personality

joining us today here on the difference

is Dr Kevin Leman we’re discussing why

birth order matters you don’t want to

miss today’s

[Music]

program welcome to the difference today

kall and I are being joined by our dear

friend Dr Kevin lhan before we jump into

a conversation that we’ve been anxious

to have let’s take a look at the last

time Dr Leman was here and by the way we

had a surprise at age 42 anybody ever

have a surprise then we had the Shocker

at at age uh 48 so we had one at 42 you

went from a surprise to a shock to the

Shocker yeah when when uh that last one

came along I’m telling you we we were

looking at each other and wondering

for the ladies when you have a baby at

48 there’s no labor whatsoever you one

sneeze and you’re right there what a

beautiful

daughter you know today Kendall and I

are being joined by one of our favorite

individuals to discuss life family and

so many of the nuances and details that

make a difference in your everyday life

Dr Kevin Leman welcome back to the

difference it’s always great to see you

sir well listen I’ll tell you I think we

ought to call this a cute couple show I

enjoy you guys so much and uh when I

knew that I was coming back to San

Antonio to do this I was just Overjoyed

so I it’s just just a pleasure to be

here with you guys one of your most

successful books is the birth order book

uh in the 60 plus books that you’ve

written this has been something that has

fascinated people and and it’s because I

believe they see themselves in it and

find out new things about themselves

that they’ve always wondered but

couldn’t Define yeah many trees died in

the birth order books honor believe me I

mean that book is sold like crazy and

I’ve got books that have outsold that

book uhhuh which is a lot of copies but

people just never forget the birth order

book because everybody’s got a birth

order and when I start talking about

these little cubs come out of the same

Den but they’re also different people

take notice because they know their

first born is one way and their second

born intuitively is going to go the

other way absolutely well you met our

four children and and I mean just in the

introductions in the brief conversations

each one of them is very different oh

yeah they’re fun you know the firstborn

is the one we practice on they’re the

lab rat of the family they’re the ones

that get in trouble for what little

brother or sister I don’t care what you

did you’re the oldest I expect more of

you young man so firstborns woke up you

should know better that that’s always

the thing yeah you should have that’s

another one but they look up and what do

they see they see adults where the

second born Third born fourth born in

your case they have buffers between them

and Mom and Dad called siblings correct

so in families there’s usually an

alliance where a firstborn might pair

off with a third born for example or the

fourth born usually skip a child to form

an

alliance if there’s a 5-year gap between

same-sex children like in the Leman

family we had three kids right off the

bat two daughters and a son there’s our

family of three

then we had a surprise at age

42 and I mean surprise yeah yeah uh and

then we had the Shocker at 48 I’m coming

home Elizabeth this is the big

one and that youngest is like an only

child cuz it raised in a totally

different house right and our fourth

born she is a baby she was like we had a

mascot now what are we going to do with

Hannah oh she’s fun let’s just play with

her you know new puppy so parents

lighten up with the firstborn you worry

about everything what they eat and by

the time the fourth born rolls around

you grab some food throw it on the floor

say dinner’s ready dinner’s ready you

know kids so we lighten up as the birth

order unfurls before us yeah name a

comedian you’re talking to a baby of the

family your Pilots your accountants your

engineers detail kids your chemists

firstborn children nurses firstborn and

middle born preachers firstborn

policemen firstborn uh the astronauts in

out Outer Space of the first 23 21

firstborn children two hes wow so not a

middle or a baby in sight so parents are

talking about challenges that they have

in in situations where you know each

Dynamic is different the last

conversation there you know mom doesn’t

want to be a bad guy is there supposed

to be a bad guy in parenting no it’s

great to have parents on the same page

but most often you’ll see couples at the

opposite extreme one is more

authoritarian the other is more

permissive but as I was listening to

that I thought of Jesus first miracle at

Canaan and Galilee if you remember now

you’re the pastor so you better remember

this I got this one down okay it was

Jesus first miracle right correct his

mother was there the disciples were

there and they run out of Veno and I

love this story because jesus’ mother

comes to Jesus and says hey son we got a

problem in the kitchen do your thing do

your thing fix it we’re out of wine yeah

and jesus’

mother uh when Jesus says No in fact he

calls her woman if you remember he say

woman woman what does their problem have

to do with me my time has not yet come

and she ignores him you should have been

a pastor you she ignores him yeah she

she she literally blows him off and just

turns to the people in the kitchen says

whatever he says to do do it it’s kind

of like Mom knew he was going to do it

no matter what exactly but here’s my

point cuz I asked my friend Chuck

swendal about that one day I said hey

Chuck tell me what what’s going on here

because Jesus clearly says no and he

turns around and does it he says well

Kevin it might have been just one of

those uncomfortable situations I’ll tell

you I’m not a theologian but I figured

it out I think jesus’ mother gave Jesus

the look

The the eye yeah it’s the same look you

give to your kid and so somebody’s

asking a question how do you discipline

your kid without raising your voice well

sometimes you do raise your voice but

sometimes you just give them a look and

tell them hey I am very unhappy with

what’s going on here cuz I got news for

you your kid mom and dad does not like

it when you’re unhappy tell them you’re

unhappy well and and and you’re speaking

about something that that relationship

builds you know as a child who grew up

in close relationship with my father I

could tell by his body posture whether

or not everything in the room was was

acceptable or unacceptable you know and

and but I’ve told you you read people

well you read life well you’re very this

guy is very unusual for for a man you

know if we could put him on eBay we

could bring in big bucks for this guy in

pesos run a run a husband for a week

here he is well before we open up the

rental business there’s a lot of things

that you can connect with with this

ministry and K and I would love for you

to find out more about them we’ll be

back with more from Dr Kevin Leman in

just a moment you’re watching the

difference stay tuned for more but the

closer kids are in the birth order the

more competition absolutely makes sense

so you have four let’s say you have four

sons and a daughter at the bottom she is

toy princess this is a woman that’s

going to understand men she is best

suited to

marry an oldest

son has God placed a precious dream in

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sdream welcome back to the difference

we’re here again with Dr Kevin Leman

talking about not only birth order but

relationships in families and it’s

something that affects everyone take a

look at this video

[Music]

is that a naughty word what naughty

word stupid Mama stupid yeah not me mom

not you you didn’t say it no are you

[Music]

sure say love

you or not or not

[Music]

so you saw several manifestations of of

what you call you know I think I heard

you say we’ve identified the enemy and

the enemy is small small right yeah yeah

they’re unionized you know it’s like

whack-a-mole parenting I call it you

know the poor Mommy she’s trying to put

out one fire and get next one starts and

there’s another one started not me Mommy

I didn’t do it yeah you know it after

you watched them do it yeah oh yeah now

in it was the woman you gave me that

made me do it correct back to Genesis

been around a long time in the video

that you just saw you know you you have

one kid that literally takes her car and

runs over a sibling yeah now in the

context of birth order we’re we’re

looking at a one and a four here we’re

looking at well here’s what happens

let’s take a little three-year-old kid

and he hears a big word for the very

first time

pregnancy and he soon learns that

Mommy’s going to go away to the hospital

and bring him home a special

present eventually the thing comes home

and the thing has its own room and the

thing gets gifts and visitors and

presents and pretty soon the

three-year-old’s

thinking I think they’re going to keep

it this is this is for Real yeah he’s

not they hear the Little Footsteps of

that baby even though that baby’s not

even crawling at that point and that’s

when sible RI sibling rivalry starts and

so it’s important for a young mom and

dad to communicate they always have

kisses for you you you talk about the

big boy big girl you help Mommy get a

pamper help me change the baby you

include that child because the enemy

cometh yes you know he was or she was

Queen of the Hill King of the Hill and

now all of a sudden this little 19 and 1

12 incher is in the life now here’s the

conversation you know honey you’re

little sister let me tell you something

she can’t even talk yeah she can’t even

walk

she can’t do anything by herself but

you’re a big boy or a little girl now if

you think that’s nonsense you’re a fool

oh yeah because I’m telling it builds

self-esteem and and you know the other

additive that I’d like to add to that is

help me teach them yes you know because

then then they feel compelled to help

them walk instead of shove them down the

stairs when they start to walk we had

Hannah was only 22 months when we

brought JW home her second and she would

get all her babies out and pat their

backs while I it looked like

a she would pick them up breastfeed them

bottle feed them put them down burp them

change them much better to have her be a

helper than stuffing her in the toilet

oh yeah what I’m saying now now when we

brought home the third when number three

came home that’s J that’s little JW

being a boy I don’t know if the boy the

whole gender thing was a little bit

different but he wanted to rock him and

take him out of the swing and I thought

oh my God he’s a play toy yeah exactly

he wanted to chew on him let’s see if he

bounces exactly now that that the

question how much does gender impact the

the birth order concept well in most

families there’s firstborn son and

firstborn daughter if you have multiple

genders so uh it could be two boys and a

girl and she might think of herself as a

baby girl she might be if she was the

apple of Daddy’s eye and the toy

princesses I like to call her but she

might very well be a very strong willed

firstborn mover and Shaker in Society

someday who’s got a very responsible job

and is a natural leader yeah so gender

is huge you know but the closer kids are

in the birth order the more competition

absolutely makes sense so you have four

let’s say you have four sons and a

daughter at the bottom she is toy

princess this is a woman that’s going to

understand men she is best suited to

marry an oldest

son so it’s the oldest and the youngest

or the only and the youngest are the

best matches M when you marry outside of

your birth order you increase

probability of success when you have two

firstborn children I bet you that’s

tough okay you’re driving along and all

you do is hang a left-hand turn dad and

is only your firstborn wife can say uh

why you turning

here I mean she’s got a better way yeah

and so we tend to sh on each other in

the firstborn position you should do

this you should do that we do that with

our kids all the time you should do this

you should do that what does that

communicate to me it communicates you

didn’t measure up twins are the same DNA

they’re genetically the same person but

this freaked me out when I found this

out years ago that identical twins have

different fingerprints I always tell

people why why did God give us

individual fingerprints to help the

FBI to help the local police no it’s

God’s way of saying you are my son you

are my daughter you are what different

than everybody El and wonderfully made

so parents do you treat your kids

differently do you have different bed

times for your kids most parents say hey

all right listen everybody everybody

listen up I want everybody in bed now

now why do you say that cuz you want to

fool around with a wife tell the truth

you want the kids out of the way okay we

need the me time us we need the me time

you see me as a singular person we is is

mutual so you know when Mom says me time

means I’m going to do what she wants

well I know that many of you are

enjoying this conversation we have so

much more to say when we come back

you’ll hear from Dr Kevin Leman as he

spoke here at Cornerstone Church

recently stay tuned for so much more

you’re watching the difference and it

takes 3 to seven years for a blended

family to blend here’s my guarantee

blended family if you’re not shoulder

to- shoulder and I mean no light between

the shoulders the enemy will defeat you

and I’m not talking about Satan I’m

talking about your own children

I’m so grateful that I chose

differently I’m so happy that I chose

you I get to see you become the person

God intended you to be thank you heggy

Ministry Legacy Partners there has never

been a better time to share the love of

Christ with a mother and a child then

right now when you partner with heggy

Ministries your legacy impacts lives and

transforms a nation call today or go to

jhm.org partner

the God we worship tonight we just sang

his Praises is a god of the supreme

authority he’s not authoritarian like

all of you grew up in authoritarian

homes like me right hey you listen up

you going to do what I tell you to

do hey you don’t change that expression

on your face I’ll come over there and

change it for you hey don’t make me come

over there how many of you can identify

with that well that’s the authoritarian

you know that’s what we grew up with but

that’s not who God is he doesn’t grab us

by the Scruff of the neck and grab our

earlobe and twist it and say you’re

going to do this do that in fact he says

just the opposite he said behold I stand

at the door and knock we got to open it

from the

inside late breaking news God doesn’t

move toward

you how about that one for a

curveball you want God you got to move

toward him a firstborns are reliable

conscientious list makers they tend to

be the movers and shakers in the family

I cite in the book the astronauts in

outter space of the first 23 21

firstborn children the other two were

only children not a middle or a baby in

sight so those of you who have a

youngest child who’s saying Mommy I want

to be an

astronaut I would take him down to

Denny’s and show him what the fry cook

does you’re just between you and me I

mean he may not be AST astronaut

material but I’m just kidding don’t send

me a nasty email about that please but

the point is that all these little cubs

come out of the same Den is it really

the same

Den because with the birth of every

child the den

changes when you’re head-to-head with a

kid you ever figured out that that kid

is more like

you than your mate so the two that are

most alike are the two that’s going to

bump heads but the firstborn child to

answer your question is the lake the ice

cutter in the lake of

life

okay your parents practiced on you they

worried about everything you ate dirt

came in your mouth oh oh honey call ER

take him to the doctor oh my goodness he

got dirt in his mouth fourth-born

kid picks up an old cigarette butt puts

it in his

mouth your husband looks at you and says

good roughage good roughage don’t worry

about

it good fiber fiber f is good for kids

building his immunities yeah exactly so

we tend to loosen up that’s why if you

named a comedian Billy Christal Eddie

Murphy uh Jim Cary Martin Short Chevy

Chase I know all those old guys best uh

they’re all babies of the

family the youngest ones they’re the

ones that got away with

murder they’re the where are the

youngest Children Here hands up would

you admit before God you’re in God’s

house that you set your brother and

sister up and got them in trouble

absolutely it’s a

skill our two children are four years

apart it’s our oldest child with the

orders he’s definitely a rule follower I

do notice my daughter is more take

charge this second one is kind of a mix

very strong willed our son does too he

has a great work ethic he requires I

call him a a locomotive you have to get

him moving yeah very strong world and

the baby thinks he can get away with

with everything

yes

definitely

[Music]

Che I tell on him he tells on me what do

you what does he say he ta he

tells I’m snitch a she a snitch a that’s

what we says are you a snitch uhhuh you

are snitched uhh and you’re proud of it

[Music]

no where do you get those clips those

are great so Reese is not proud of being

a snitch but she at least knows she’s a

snitch

snitch the the thing that you do see in

kids is that kind of cander and honesty

yes and you know sometimes I think

there’s a lot of information that that

people hear and then they want to come

up with an excuse why they’re the

exception to the rule and and so let’s

talk about Blended families for example

how how do those families apply in the

context of birth order well number one

they don’t blend they Collide at

best uh what’s what’s green

and goes 50 mil an hour a frog in a

blunder

uh you know when you talk about a

blended family it’s it’s a misnomer

because you got his and hers and they

come together and I wrote a book on the

subject I’ve written a book I think on

every subject but I did write a book on

Blended families and it takes 3 to seven

years for a blended family to blend

here’s my guarantee blended family if

you’re not shoulder-to-shoulder and I

mean no light between the shoulders the

enemy will defeat you and I’m not

talking about Satan I’m talking about

your own children mhm they have an axe

to grind they’ve been hurt by life

already now they got this new person in

their life and by the way for you are

you are single you’re going it alone my

advice stay single until those kids are

out of the house wow if you’re dating if

you insist on dating I’ve heard every

story about dating I realize how you

feel date that man away from your house

date that woman away from your house do

not have contact with that person and

your

kids well why would you say that that

because 11 months later after these kids

have really likeed this guy you find out

he’s two time and you and it’s all split

and and and you just recreated the

problem over again so protect your kids

at all cost is what I’m saying uhhuh I

think that there are times when people

hear that and they say I am protecting

them but the the real yeah the the

reality of that protection is that it’s

actually harmful right because there’s

there’s no opportunity for the child to

find his own existence right how many

parents today are brave enough to let

their 12-year-old pay all the bills in

their family none they should do it not

us every family should let the

12-year-old make the mortgage payment

they can do it digitally online better

than you can in all probability true

their whizzes I mean some of them can

text like a woodpecker that’s got a bad

case of ADHD I mean let them do you

should let them do it because because

you want to resp know how many Bucks it

cost to run a family today yeah you know

what is a lease car payment what’s a

mortgage payment what’s our rent they

should know then they and I call it

reality discipline in one of my books

the book uh making children mind without

losing yours that’s another million

seller by the way and it’s that’s a book

that talks about the difference between

Authority and authoritarianism and why

you want to be in healthy Authority but

it says Hey give your kids reality

experiences yeah let them figure things

out let them give back to the family uh

three-year-olds can help empty a

dishwasher from the get-go let kids be

part of the action here’s my problem

with that that I do like I let them

start it but I’m a perfectionist and

it’s not good enough so then I tell them

you know what get out of the way I can

get this done so much faster in which I

I know he’s like let them finish it yeah

well you married a smart man because

what happens and let me speak to

perfectionism as bluntly as I can it’s

slow

suicide okay so you got to put away that

ability I’m married Mrs upington can

spot a flaw at 50 Paces I’m going out

that Mrs upington is my wife that’s my

nickname for her her name is Sandy and

she’ll say to me things like uh you’re

not going out like that are

you I said time out what’s the problem

you got a big spot on your shirt only

one I’ll be back in an hour and a half

don’t worry about it but she has that

ability to spot the flaw well we are all

flawed to the core that’s right so if

you have that rock around your neck

called

perfectionism break it it pays off in

your business the skill that makes you a

great nurse physician engineer

accountant that same skill to find the

flaw is the same basic flaw that works

against you in your marriage in your

relationship with your kids and you end

end up shoting on other people so my

basic advice is learn to flaunt your

imperfection well if there’s something

that’s

unnatural it’s flaunting your

imperfection nobody wants to flaunt

through imperfection I’m saying work

toward that when you pray to almighty

God you pray out of your real self oh

Lord make me this oh Lord make me that

or do you pray from your real self Lord

you know I struggle with this you know I

struggle with that you tell me what’s

the healthier prayer I think we can all

figure out which way is the healthy way

to go absolutely so as you develop

transparency in

relationships everything goes better

yeah you know so much of this wisdom is

available in Dr leman’s books and I

encourage you to look them up uh the

website again is birth order guy and

there you have the opportunity to find

out more about these resources how you

can connect with his podcast but before

we leave Kendall and I want to share

with you something that gives you the

opportunity to make a difference in the

world around you it’s called the

sanctuary of hope it’s a place where

young ladies who are in need of a life

solution can find one and it’s a great

way for you and your family to make a

difference in a generation to come you

can find out more by going to

sar.org and I encourage you to do so

[Music]

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partner Kendall and I want to thank our

good friend Dr Kevin lemman for coming

and joining us on today’s program we

also want to thank you and hope that the

information that we discussed today was

not only a blessing to you but helps you

understand how fearfully and wonderfully

made you are for more information about

this program you can follow us on

Facebook or go to jhm.org God bless you

and thank you for watching the

difference