The Difference with Matt & Kendal Hagee – “How to Have a Naked Marriage”

 

According to guests Dave and Ashley Willis, hosts of “The Naked Marriage” podcast, couples that are able to have open, honest and transparent conversations reach a special level of intimacy in their marriage. They see each other, flaws and all, and accept each other and love each other just as they are. To grow in that kind of love is what the naked marriage is all about…being naked emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and yes…physically too!

do you have a naked marriage Define what

the context and concept of this naked

marriage is we’ve seen a lot of The Good

the Bad and the Ugly of each other but

what we found is when we were are able

to have these open honest and

transparent conversations that we really

we go to a next level of intimacy that

we really couldn’t have if we weren’t

willing to have those conversations I

had a early in our marriage a secret sin

issue you were in trouble

[Music]

joining us are marriage experts Dave and

Ashley Willis they’re the host of the

naked marriage podcast they are also

conference speakers with XO marriage

between the two of them they have

authored nine books Dave and Ashley

Welcome to our show thank you so much so

glad that you guys are here you know

it’s great to have you on the show

you’ve been in the sanctuary you’ve come

with EXO conference uh lots of our

congregations blessed by your content

and and for the people who are trying to

catch their breath because we’ve used

the word naked you know like three

different times uh in our intro Define

what the context and concept of this

naked marriage is yeah well really it’s

God’s idea right the Bible has the word

naked in fact when describing the first

married couple Adam and Eve it says they

were naked and unashamed and I love that

picture of marriage really it’s the root

of what we do at naked marriage because

nakedness isn’t just physical it’s also

a picture of being naked emo spiritually

mentally it’s saying I have no secrets

to keep from you there’s nothing up my

sleeve I’m not even wearing sleeves and

we can have a total honest transparent

marriage where we see each other flaws

in all and we accept each other and love

each other uh just as we are and we grow

in that kind of love and and that’s

really the the root of what the naked

marriage is all about Adam and Eve were

naked they were in an Age of Innocence

yeah they didn’t have any concept that

there was anything to cover you know but

in our lives we have to build this

through trust because we’re looking at

our spouse going if you see that what

are you going to think of me yeah

exactly you know that takes a lot of

Courage what have you learned in your

you know 20 years plus of marriage and

and four kids and all your experiences

about these two things of courage and

trust and inside your naked marriage

we’ve seen a lot of The Good the Bad and

the Ugly of each other but what we found

is you don’t have any ugly oh you know I

do but what we found is when we were are

able to have these open honest and

transparent conver ations that we really

we go to a next level of intimacy that

we really couldn’t have if we weren’t

willing to have those conversations and

what we tell people we work with is that

you know those are scary they can often

start out awkwardly like all of us are

that way because I think we avoid having

them because we are scared but the

bottom line is if we don’t have them

we’re really building up walls and we’re

really making assumptions we believe

lies and that’s where the enemy Creeps

in just like he did with Adam and Eve

and so what we need to do is get ahead

of it by having those honest

conversations and if we’re nervous pray

about it beforehand we are Our Own Worst

Enemy because we make it so much worse

than what it’s really going to be you

know I mean it’s kind of like that kid

that you take to get a shot at the

doctor’s office and all the way to the

office he’s like I don’t want to get a

shot I don’t want to get a shot I don’t

want to get a shot and then they’re

bracing for impact and then they get the

shot and they go oh that’s not that bad

and then they get a B you know you know

in in confronting something with someone

that we love you know we build it up to

I can’t I can’t I just you know it’s not

going to go well and we we have this

false scenario of of you know nuclear

fallout almost make it 10 times harder

than it should be instead of walking up

and saying hey I I need to share

something with you I did that in the

early years of our marriage I was going

through anxiety and depression and I

held it in for a long time and it was

eating away at me and I just thought I’m

just going to power through I’m a

Christian woman I can just power through

and you know and I really believe the

lies of the enemy that you can’t tell

anybody you can’t even tell him he’ll

never understand and I remember there

was one night it always hits you know it

hit me and it hits a lot of people in

the we hours I just was having a an

anxiety attack and really praying

through it and uh and God always met me

right there but it’s like I really felt

the Holy Spirit telling me you have got

to tell Dave he is your husband you know

and that was really it and so I went and

woke him up at like 3:00 a.m. and told

him how’d you handle 3:00 a.m. oh are

you morning I I’m a I’m a deep sleeper

every marriage has at least just one

deep sleeper and that’s me that’s me in

our marriage you know and when she told

me I was just I was so thankful she told

me and I said I’m I’m so sorry you’ve

had to felt like you had to carry this

on your own because a marriage it’s it’s

about carrying it together bear one each

other each other’s burdens and in this

way you fulfill the law of Christ and I

didn’t have any answers but I’m like but

we’re going to face this together we’re

going to figure out the answers together

and there have been a lot of times

through our marriage where I think we

we’ve learned sometimes the hard way to

just bring it out I had a early in our

marriage a secret sin issue where I I’d

had to struggle with pornography for my

teenage years and i’ tried to deal with

it the prideful way which is just on my

own don’t get accountability don’t

confess I have shame ton of

Shame which is where the enemy wants you

to stay corre in shame keep it in the

dark don’t tell anybody deal with this

on your own and what God wants us to do

is bring it out into the light to

confess to get accountability um but I

convinced myself that no my life would

be over I’d never be forgiven I would

never never have anything good if anyone

knew about this and so it it finally

came out I didn’t even have the courage

to confess it sadly Ashley found it on

her old clunky computer this was before

the days of smartphones and um it was

the worst and best day all at once cuz

now it was it was out and I hated that

that I’d hurt her but at the same time I

felt for the first time some Freedom now

that it’s out in the light we can deal

with it we can start to heal we can

start to rebuild TR we have to talk

about we have to talk about it exactly

and um I’m so glad that that it got out

there so just for anyone watching

listening right now if there’s something

in your life that you’re holding in get

it out tell your spouse

get it out there because we’re not meant

to carry Secrets we’re not meant to

we’re meant to bring it out into the

light and to deal with it together which

is where this context of of of being

exposed naked you know transparent with

each other comes from you know Ashley

you said something that I think is

interesting as Christians we we convince

ourselves that we’re going to power

through this oh yeah and yet the

scripture tells us apart from Christ you

can do nothing right and then you know

when you read the biblical perspective

of marriage Mar when your life begins

with the person that you’re in a

covenant of marriage with it’s no longer

you and them it’s both of you together

yes God doesn’t see either of you he

sees both of you or he doesn’t see

neither you know so it’s it’s not that

he sees Kindle and he sees matter or he

sees Ashley he sees Dave he sees Matt

and Kendall and if Matt’s not with

Kendall he doesn’t look at me you know

he’s like where is she and so I think

when you look at this in the context of

our

faith what you have to feel like you

power through God gave you that to pull

you through exactly so good you know I

mean for me there’s things that I’m like

no I’m the man I got to deal with this

and it’s not until I share what I’m

carrying with her that she’ll give me a

different perspective oh yeah and what’s

complicated to me is very simple to her

and I’m like can’t compc to me can’t be

that yeah exactly it’s it’s this you

know big deal little deal you know I

mean she’s a detail gal I’m a big idea

guy and so whenever I come to her with

these big ideas that I just can’t figure

out she’s like oh that’s easy just do

this this this and I’m like yeah oh all

right fine you know but it that’s that’s

what you the the second you abandon the

uh the vanity of it’s all on me yes you

because even in a self you know martyred

way that’s vanity you

know I’m strong enough to handle this no

I got to share this because she’ll help

me through it right you know every time

it’s so true it’s Pride that keeps us

you know from that engagement and I’m

telling you once I was able to tell Dave

was really going on with me it was like

a little bit of that load lifted and

then Dave did help me find the courage

to get the help that I needed and and we

were able to to go through it together

you know I love the the verse about

bearing each other’s burdens and I think

oftentimes as Christian married couples

we forget to Bear each others burdens it

is an honor to help bear those burdens

and even with Dave’s um sin issue of

pornography you know it was a very hard

day when I found that and had to hear

him confess it to me and a hard season

to through absolutely get it over with

by 5:00 oh exactly I wish I wish confess

it overdone yeah yeah we’re good right

let’s move on that we lick the stamp and

mailed it is gone yes it’s it was messy

yeah I mean Jesus forgives that fast but

the healing process is still corre and

rebuilding trust and rebuild that’s the

hardest part like well Pastor Jimmy

Evans says and I love this trust is

built in drops and lost in buckets so I

dumped out a bucket load of trust all at

once and so it started the Journey of

one drop at a time rebuilding it but it

also taught us some new habits that you

know principle we try to live by secrets

are the enemies of intimacy and any

anything we’re keeping secret is

actually sabotaging Intimacy in our

relationship and so we we just try to

live open and transparent and um and

that’s it it brings accountability but

it also brings connection and that

builds the strength of your relationship

and really in many ways prevents the

Calamity that so many Christian

marriages unfortunately are facing which

is separation and and then ultimately in

many cases divorce you know if you’re

watching and you’ve lost bucket loads of

trust when we come back to the

difference we’re going to talk about how

to rebuild it and how to do it with a

transparent and naked

[Music]

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[Music]

Prosper you guys we have moments like

yeah and we don’t want to paint that

picture like we listen to us because we

just have this figured out cuz it’s it’s

that’s not true now part of why I love

our marriage is because been intentional

about trying to consistently be kind to

each other yeah and encouraging to each

other and showing gratitude and courtesy

to each other and the same things that

we talk about here all the time like

we’re we’re trying to live that out so

Dave Ashley that was just a quick clip

from your naked marriage podcast and and

the content that you guys are constantly

putting together one of the things that

I think is so healthy and is really

encouraging to me as a pastor leading in

the church in this generation is how

willing people are to seek help for

their marriage as opposed to the Past

yes you know I mean when I was a kid

like it it when I was a kid if you used

if you used the CW

counselor you were in trouble you know

it’s like they’re in counseling oh well

we’re going to pray about that what do

you think has shifted that mindset in

this generation to where people are like

you know what I need that help I’m I’m

longing for it I think that’s one of the

positive things maybe that that has come

through social media for all the the

negatives we talk about social media

it’s shown everybody oh wow everybody’s

struggling I don’t have to pretend that

that I’m the only one that’s struggling

everybody is struggling even though we

still post our highlight reels and

filtered pictures and stuff but but

there’s been a more openness of people

sharing hey this counseling is helps me

you know people share what’s helping

them and it’s broken down some barriers

and I’m I think that’s that’s so good

it’s so health because Counseling in any

form um if as long as it’s a Christian

counsel rooted in scripture absolutely

yeah it’s there’s wisdom there proverb

says wisdom in an abundance of

counselors and so I think it’s a it’s a

good thing that people are open to and I

think they don’t realize sitting down

for lunch with another couple that

you’re that you admire and that you feel

you can glean wisdom from that’s counsel

yes absolutely and going to a Bible

study where you’ve got some people

who’ve got a little more Age and and

wisdom behind them than you do and

learning from them that’s counsel you

and this is why the body of Christ is

such an important element in the life of

a Believer but then there’s times where

you do need to sit down with some

professionals who have gone through a

series of scenarios and trainings and

understanding to be able to say okay

this is the best path forward like a

medical professional that can say okay

this is the virus here’s the cure a

wonderful thing to know that in the

world that we live in this kind of help

is available at at just the touch of a

button you know and it’s okay you don’t

have to be ashamed if you go seek a

counsel and I know even pastor Matt and

I we have gone and sit down with the

counselor and when we told people that

they were like you did Pastor

yeah we sat one of our still do dinners

and the question was well what’s the

best thing you ever did for your

marriage I was like well we went to a

counsel I mean the room was

like

M tell people the same thing it helped

us it set people free and you can talk

about and you don’t have to fake being

fine we struggled too she needed help

and I didn’t know how to do it so I was

like well it gives you more credibility

really I mean I that we found that in

our ministry the more we’re open about

the times we’ve struggled and what we

learned people lean in you know well it

makes you real yeah you know and and and

it’s silly in so many ways in in our

modern context of of you know Victorious

living in our faith you know one of the

ways that I know the Bible is written by

the holy spirit is the authors of the

Bible shared their brutal flaws

oh if I’m writing about me I’m not going

to tell you about my worst day I’m going

to say here’s all the highlights of my

resume aren’t I something but I mean

when these guys sat down to write it

they wrote All warts and allart and all

you know and I mean I could hear the

Holy Spirit saying yeah you got to write

that down no I’m not going to write that

you tell them or I will you it makes

Jesus the hero well it makes it makes

the perfect man and the perfect God the

hero and it says to everyone who reads

it if these people who achieved great

things struggled with great things

you’re going to struggle too it’s okay

that’s right you know it’s so good and I

think it’s you know talking about naked

communication even there’s married

couples that are fighting over pet

peeves I know you mentioned your book

naked Mar about how y’all talked about

some of those and we dealt with that

when we first got married I thought wow

really Anno me when you do this this I

thought it was a progressive work it is

it is the way you chew your food is disg

don’t talk and like you said when if you

just think that they know everything

that you’re thinking and they don’t yes

you have to share those things with your

spouse and tell them what’s irritating

you annoying I loved your analogy uh the

other night when you were sharing about

the Jedi Mind trip yes because I think

that there are so many wives and I’m not

saying that husbands don’t as well but

there are so many wives that just want

to look at their husband and believe

that everything that’s going through her

brain is is being filtered into you he

should know well the problem is and and

I’ve told kall this a million times if

you ask one question I cannot listen to

question two until my brain has answered

question one right and when you walk

through the back door of the house and

she goes how was your day at work well

that’s question one and I need to answer

that before I can bring in any new

information and then she goes and what

do you want to do for summer vacation

and I was thinking next year for

Christmas and then do you think we

should redecorate the attic and and like

who well and the computer in my brain is

going yeah and I mean the the wheel of

death is now spinning in my subconscious

and I’m silent she’s like you don’t ever

say anything I’m like talk you don’t

talk I’m trying to answer question one

which I think was decorating the day in

the ad you know this is where these you

know pet peeves these irritations these

challenges arise and the fun part of it

is learning how to work together in it

you the the the the ridiculous thing is

when you ignore it let it build up build

up and then you become a pressure cooker

exactly and then you eventually you

unleash you know there comes a point

where you unleash throughout our

marriage I mean we’ve had to to learn

this and relearn this and relearn this

because it’s a constant work you know

you never arrive in marriage no which I

actually find comfort in that because

it’s a journey you know we’re always

learning and we’re always changing and

so what worked then may not work now and

the Jedi mind trick I was so guilty I

really thought just the longer we were

married the more in love we became that

he would just know everything that was

on my mind he would just serve me in

that way and just you know and I would

know what he needed just without even

asking but uh we learn you know we

learned we have to actually talk about

it we need to actually say what’s on our

mind in a loving way well I think

there’s this myth that a perfect couple

is one who can finish each other’s

sentences and I feel like it’s more

perfect to allow your spouse to finish

their own sentences and actually listen

because that’s where you’re going to

know what they’re thinking it’s proba

they might say something you weren’t

expecting but when we really listen and

instead of jumping to conclusions or

assumptions then we’re going to know

what they need and they’ll know what we

need I think that you have to be willing

to accept the context that your way may

not be wrong it’s just different

absolutely yes yout I mean when kend and

I got married I wake up excited I mean I

feel like I have

just I I have just gotten permission to

go live the day and and and it’s I’ve

been that way since I was a kid you know

I me like I’m awake you know yes need

she and Jesus got their own thing going

until that first cup of coffee hits I

exactly and you know I mean it took me

for and I say forever it just took me

several train wrecks to be like you know

good morning and she’d be like no no and

and I’m what did I do wrong you know and

and and I would get take it so

personally that she was not as excited

as I was to face the day you know and

then I realized if I will shut up until

that first cup of coffee she’ll walk in

the room and go Hi how are you at which

point I now have permission to go yes

it’s today you know about the day and

and I mean the first year of our

marriage it was like nothing but pulling

pins on hanger ades cuz you know I’d be

like hey and she’s like shut up you

know he’s

awake yeah it’s the same and you got it

it’s that not that either one’s right

the morning person’s not wrong the night

person’s not wrong it’s just how God we

have different flows and so you just you

learn to serve each other yeah one of

the things I do is I’ll brush my teeth

first thing in the morning because if

there’s a toothbrush in my mouth I can’t

ask stupid questions that’s smart and my

brain is going I need to ask her this I

need to ask her this and and I’m like I

can’t do it cuz I’m going to choke so

you know it works one of the ways that

you learn how to complement one another

instead of compete with each other is by

identifying what your spouse needs and

then willingly and lovingly Meeting

those needs when we come back we’ll talk

more about that don’t go away you’re

watching the

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the difference our

guests marriage ministers Dave and

Ashley Willis have been sharing with us

some of the secrets of communication

some of the issues and challenges that

relationships face and some of the

things that each and every one of us

have to address if we’re going to have

the marriage that God wants us to have

your opinion about spouses having

friends of the opposite sex this is a

challenge because you know I went to

lunch and this is not my testimony I

don’t eat lunch but you know I mean

husband comes home and wife says who’

you have lunch with today I had lunch

with Sally well we’re just work friends

you know so how how do you address that

where are your boundaries man you know

that this is the first the very first

controversial issue we ever stumbled

across by accident on social medias I we

posted something that said just said be

very careful of having close friends of

the opposite sex because so many Affairs

start out as as quote friendships that

end up Crossing Lines I didn’t feel like

that was that controversial a state but

when we put it it started a firor of

debate of people saying this is this is

ridiculous you should have friends and

other people saying no my marriage ended

because of this and all these folks were

arguing back and forth um and so it’s a

hot button issue for folks because some

people feel like well I’m I’m in a work

setting where it can’t be helped you

know I’m I’m having to interact closely

with people of the opposite sex my

spouse shouldn’t worry uh but at the

same time What we feel like as as a

general rule and because we’ve worked in

settings where you know we’re working

closely with people the opp opposite sex

is you have to have clear boundaries in

place yes I think going off to lunch

one-on-one with someone of the opposite

sex out of bounds is out of bounds you

have to just declare upfront that the

these certain things are out of bounds

we’re never going to put ourselves in

that position we’re not going to start

kind of secret text threads one-on-one

with someone of the opposite sex we’re

going to copy someone else or we’re

going to we’re going to do some things

just to create transparency

accountability everyone in my life is

going to know that I’m happily married I

love my spouse and I’m totally committed

to them if you never talk about your

spouse at work if you’re not wearing a

wedding ring if you’re I mean all those

things are are going to they’re going to

come back to bite you they will and I’m

telling you too it’s it’s heartbreaking

to your spouse because I you know we

hear couples in this Dynamic where they

have maybe several opposite sex friends

and they don’t want to let them go you

know we’ll ask them well why and and a

lot of times their spouse will say

listen because they’re like I’m not I’m

not having an affair I’m just having

lunch you know and their spouse will say

but you’re sharing parts of you with

that person that you are not sharing

with me it’s a confidence Confidant

issue exactly you I can talk to them

about something I’m not going to talk to

you about and that shouldn’t be there ex

because there’s an intimacy that comes

through that and I think people

underestimate the intimacy that can come

through just sharing your heart with

someone and that is how those Affairs

happen I don’t I’m of the belief that I

would say most people never think oh I

just want to have an affair and bust up

my family no but they do innocently it’s

these subtle little things crumbs that

lead you into the pot exactly right

exactly but you know as you talk about

okay co-workers or friends because you

know several situations well this is a

friend from my college days or this you

know and you’ve got all those challenges

and issues I also think that sometimes

you can develop those inappropriate

connections with your SP your siblings

your your parents you I’m going to

confide in my dad I’m going to confide

in my mom I’m going to go talk to my

sister I’m going to go talk to my

brother but the reality of it is is that

your responsib is to confide in your

spouse you know and in the same way

people say well that’s not the taboo of

an affair but there’s still that

emotional connection where you haven’t

left a previous relationship to come

into this relationship how do you

address that so you just wrote a book on

it I am listening to it about how deal

with the in-laws and oh thank you so you

shared stories tell them their Outlaws

and then it’s over no I love how you

talk about and you share stories and

questions on that so tell us a little

bit how do you leave and cleave and join

with your husband or your wife and God

but then you also honor your parents yes

well yeah that’s God’s design he wants

us to to have healthy relationships with

family but the moment you marry your

spouse you’ve created a new family a New

Covenant that supersedes all other human

relationships in terms of its PRI place

of priority and that’s by God’s design

and anytime that we we devalue our

spouse by giving someone else the

attention and connection that rightfully

belongs to them even if it’s a nonsexual

relationship even if it’s a family

relationship then really we’re we

sabotaging that hierarchy that God’s

created and it’s going to cause pain and

so the the book married into the family

it just kind of goes back to God’s

design of like how how’s family supposed

to look what are those clear boundaries

supposed to look like and how do we

always put our spouse first while still

doing our best to honor both sides of

the fames as best we can and I think the

number one way that you honor your

spouse uh and really make sure that that

they’re that first priority as far as

your Human Relationships is that you

together make those B boundaries like

you can’t just do it one of you make

those boundaries you can’t draw a line

and they not hold it and vice versa

exactly and we’ve walked through this

you know and we know that difficulty in

how much you love your family members

but if they’re causing like wanting more

control in your life we we know that

that struggle but you have to come

together and for us it took getting a

professional Christian counselor helping

walk us through and say like these are

the boundaries that need to be in place

and we agree on these boundaries and

then holding them focus on stuff that

matters for eternity

not say hob are evil I’m just asally

calling out the for a we tend to our

best energy to chasing trophies that

really don’t matter when there’s just

nothing guys more important than than

than your faith in in God your your wife

your kids if you’re losing in those

areas no amount of wins in your career

or anywhere else is going to is going to

make up for for losing at home yeah well

the people that I observe in life who

enjoy those things like Golf and and

hunting or whatever whatever it is the

difference between enjoyment and

escapism is the health of home

absolutely if home is healthy then I’m

enjoying this opportunity if home is

sick I’m escaping that by doing this and

so I don’t really enjoy what I’m

escaping to because as soon as I’m done

with it I got to go back to sick you

know but if I’m deployed from a healthy

house to go enjoy this well then it’s a

great time you know and I can’t wait to

get home at the end correct and and and

then everything gets better you know

whenever you intentionally take the time

to identify what needs to change and

then look at the truth of God’s word and

willingly embrace the reality that

through his word and through his promise

you can change that’s right you’re going

to discover that what he has for you is

far better than anything that you could

ever imagine for yourself Kendall and I

want to thank you for joining us for

this very important conversation want to

thank Dave and Ashley for being here our

pleasure thank you and uh want you guys

to know that you can find them at the

naked marriage podcast you can go find

their book online also if you see an XO

conference in your area or you get the

chance to go be a part of one I want to

encourage you that’s one of the greatest

things that you will ever invest in your

marriage is the opportunity to be

encouraged not only by Christian

counselors Ministry coaches and

individuals who’ve been there but

couples who also want to encourage you

as you walk together through life God’s

got a great plan for your family and it

all is found in his word thank you for

watching the difference

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