In Part 2, Mo is joined by Sheena Meekins, Director of Integrated marketing at TEEN Vogue, who lives in the heart of NYC. We’ll talk with Mo & Sheena about the trends they see in the lives of young women today, the dangers of such things and how we as followers of Christ should respond.
hey there welcome welcome this is the
cats a place where we are chatting about
the things that are important and today
we have a very important show listen you
have probably heard of a little book
turned movie called Fifty Shades of Grey
well the gray area is becoming even more
grey it seems like nobody really knows
how to kind of get a handle on what’s
right what’s wrong what’s in-between and
if any of this is really doing damage in
the lives of people and we’re going to
talk about that today because it’s
important meal of mostly women have read
this book have gone to this movie and we
already did a show on the Fifty Shades
of Grey we talked to two very incredible
women who were able to help us kind of
wade through some of the psychological
waters as to what this is doing to our
lives to our marriages but today we’re
gonna talk a little bit more personally
with a couple people that are gonna be
able to give us some personal insight
about how their lives have been affected
by things like pornography promiscuity
you know listen this is not just a man’s
issue it very much is a woman’s issue as
well we’re gonna get the female
perspective on it you are going to want
to stay tuned this is gonna be a good
one
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hey there pull up a chair this has
already been a great conversation that
we’ve been having this is part two of a
conversation okay so you need to view
part one if you have not already we’ve
been talking about an issue something
that really is an issue for women that
we really don’t talk about much and
that’s pornography promiscuity our
culture how we’re going to be able to be
pure as women and stand up against you
know so many that so many things that
are happening in our culture not the
least of which is this phenomena which
is kind of raced across the entire
planet Fifty Shades of Grey
well we’ve named our great Fifty Shades
of Grey yeah that’s right we’ve named
this program Fifty Shades of grace just
to give you another alternative and to
hear a little some stories of hope that
will be helpful to you we want to add to
that conversation today we’ve been
talking to a wonderful woman named mo
but we also want to talk to you a young
lady named Sheena I’m just kind of taken
by her and yeah I think you’re gonna see
why because do you remember when you
were a little girl and you grew up
thinking man one day I want to live in
New York City one day I want to be you
know I want to work in fashion maybe I
want to do some cool things with my life
well she’s not just dreaming about it
she’s actually doing it and as a result
of that she really does have a pulse on
what’s happening in the lives of young
women so we want to talk to her today
will you please welcome Sheena to the
program
thank you baby I’m so glad you’re here
mo yes should we talk about how
impressed we are with her pants it’s the
pants it’s the Blazer it’s the hair
above all oh yeah you’re diggin it all
Teen Vogue no reason why you look teen
but I wanted to impress you yeah right I
thought it was gonna be battle of the
curls and it is metal hold yours back so
oh the feeling I’m feeling confident
well you look so fashionable because you
work for Teen Vogue tell us what you do
there
I am integrated marketing director at
Teen Vogue which is kind of a fancy way
to say that we are the puzzle piece
between the ad side and the editorial
side and it’s a lot of creativity it’s
really fast-paced we’re building
campaigns all the time
long hours but really incredible work
and you have a pulse on what’s happening
with young women because that’s your
audience that’s who you’re kind of
making sure the magazine reads well
toward yes okay so we’ve been talking
with Mo in part one of this conversation
that we’ve been having about her
personal struggle but also culturally
the struggle women really are having
with purity and so what trends both of
you particularly you scheana though in
the position that you have what trends
are you seeing that are really making it
difficult for our young women to be pure
so yeah a big part of our job is knowing
what’s going on in pop culture at all
times and seeing that you know not just
in the magazine in print but seeing you
know social conversations with social
media and there’s really an overwhelming
pressure for girls to define themselves
and define yourself without boundaries
so you know live life for today get out
there and you know see what’s inside of
you discover that and really for young
girls the people who are seen to be you
know the bold and the free are the ones
who really push to the edge of the
limits and you know they’re the ones who
are really diving into things that are
really risque and that that’s getting
all the media attention so those are
kind of the girls that and the people
that women are looking up to now that
you’re young
looking up to and you know it’s
something that it’s really warring
against kind of you know all the
messages that we have it’s they’re
seeing these women who are on the outer
edges you know pushing the limits as the
ones who are bold and free versus us
women as Christians who are the ones who
actually have the truth we’re the ones
who are bold and free and you I mean
you’re living a pretty exciting life so
you’re living kind of bold and out loud
and free but what do you guys think is
that dividing line sort of that line
that a woman a young woman that’s
watching right now she’s trying to
figure out how do I live out loud and be
that kind of woman that I so admire when
I look in a magazine except be able to
do that in a way that’s still honoring
to my body and honoring to myself as a
woman what’s that line that she should
be looking for to let her know when
she’s sort of teetering over the edge of
course I think what’s interesting I love
how you used the word free because I
think that is kind of the anthem of
these young women if they want to be
expressive and free and you know all of
these things but in no definition of
freedom that I know does your personal
freedom come at the cost of bondage to
others and so I think these girls are
thinking I’m going to express myself and
wear whatever I want and be as sexual as
I want because I’m free yet it’s causing
their brothers to stumble it’s causing
other girls to covet and envy it’s
causing a lot of bondage and a lot of
people around them and I’ve just always
found that that the boldest leader the
most free individual is the most
faithful follower follower of Christ and
I think there’s amazing freedom and
knowing that we were designed by a
creator who’s written us this tremendous
love letter and telling us how to be at
our best when we’re nearest to him to me
it’s like give that a run give it a shot
girls you know try that type of freedom
and and see how that not only empowers
you but empowers the people around you
too okay
so tell me tell me does Teen Vogue are
you able to present
a picture an image of this bold
confident fearless woman who is living
out loud and do that in a way that
doesn’t position her sexually do you
think that your magazine does that well
yeah absolutely I think you know there’s
there’s definitely a fine line our
readers are anywhere from you know
teenagers in high school to mostly
college age and a lot are beyond so from
a perspective of like my my actual work
it I am in a safe space of you know not
having to put together things that are
over sexualized or that are really
drawing that line I think you know
regardless when you look at the industry
in general the media industry so much is
permissible just in the work culture and
gray is getting greater gray is getting
grayer as far as a work culture in that
perspective and so I think as the
Christian as a believer it’s my position
to to be the light there because you
know for foremost that I can from what I
can see from my co-workers and
colleagues you know there are not a lot
of believers at all is it hard is it
hard to be in the middle of Manhattan
working for a major magazine and be a
believer if you want me to swim upstream
it would be harder if I were not filled
up on the Lord and if I did not have
such an intimate relationship with him
myself I think that’s something that it
it’s pertinent that you have that you
have to you have to be filled up with
him yourself you have to have community
around you
and people who support you and people
who who understand and when you’ve had a
hard day you know when when you do come
up against something where it’s rubbing
against you know the area where you feel
that crisis had for you to walk within
the support of that community is
absolutely necessary that you could step
out and do whatever you need to do and
face whatever you need to face so it’s
not circumstantial it’s it’s really you
know that intimate time you have with
the Lord and the the people who are
strengthening you and keeping you you
know and check do you think mo that
there could have been an older woman in
your life
if she would have said this if she would
have asked me this if someone would have
done
this I probably could have circumvented
a whole lot of a lot of my journey it
could have been shortened mm-hmm
and less impactful if somebody would
have done yeah it’s um or not maybe not
well I had a mom who wholeheartedly with
everything in her was trying to instill
those strong values within me who really
did constantly share those those strong
messages and prayed for me without
ceasing I think that you know girls will
take what their mother says with a grain
of salt as comparative to if a friend or
appear where to say something and I
think possibly if there had been someone
a bit nearer to my age who had let let
me know you know you have purpose
actually God has unbelievable plans for
you and you’re so valuable you’re worth
so much it’s one thing to hear that from
adults when you’re a kid because you
think you’re supposed I am yeah keep it
coming your old morning but I don’t know
if I had had a peers when I was a
teenager who had had the boldness to
come up and shake some sense into me and
say hey we’re sisters in this we’ve got
a bold commissioning let’s go be about
God’s business and break the mirrors
that are just in front of us constantly
let’s focus on something else I think
that would have been amazing I
unfortunately didn’t really have that
type of bold community around me hence
now why I do what I do of trying to get
in with younger girls and get them to
rise up together in community to say we
are women and we are beautiful and and
we are powerful and strong and mighty in
the Lord we don’t have to be you know
the greatest sexual tease to be a
powerful female I think it would have
gone a long way and I was gonna say I
think it’s the the vision that you have
to have to know that that God said that
you’re worthy that God said that you are
my daughter and I
love you and I have something amazing
for you there’s a woman that that I’ve
made you to be and he’s calling us into
being those people he’s calling us out
of darkness and bondage and all these
things that would keep us out of that
destiny of you know a woman who is
powerful in her sphere of influence and
who’s just operating in all the
blessings and all the things that he’s
built to to help you just spread his
message and spread his love to people
around you and that for me is something
that you know it’s never been about
staying away from sin or staying away
from you know she needed to shield
myself from certain things it’s always
about chasing after what God has set
before us do you think that community
like what Moses saying do you think that
community is important enough that that
it would steer a young girl away from
having to go out to define herself do
you think that community is enough
definition for her that she doesn’t then
need to seek it elsewhere yeah
absolutely I think that I think there’s
so much power in being able to look over
to your peers and say you know we share
this in common or she’s like me and
she’s walking in freedom she’s like me
and she’s you know not needing to run to
these things she’s she’s whole thing
able to look over and see someone who’s
like you and being able to relate to
that is that is such a powerful thing
for me in particular that that’s what
made celibacy real to me because I
wasn’t I wasn’t saved until I was almost
23 and by now like 24 and a half I am
she’s all about generating board she’s
I’m 20 I’m 29 now so I’ve been safe for
just over six years and that was one of
the first things that changed is that
just walking in purity and walking in
celibacy and it’s crazy because you know
I earned to my roommates of my friends
who were there and I was like I feel so
powerful like I actually it you feel
powerful you feel there’s just amazing
thing that happens when you step into
who God has called you to be and you
know without hearing it from people
without hearing someone next to your
sister say oh my goodness there’s so
much there’s so much power and amazing
you know lie
in this and walking in this way that’s
what calls you to freedom that’s what
gives you the boldness to step out and
you know in community we we can’t be
afraid to to share those things or to
share what we’re walking through it or
share what we’ve broken free from
because that you know gives permission
to others that they can break free as
well and that hey this sounds crazy or
this seems radical it seemed it seems so
radical to me to like what I’m not gonna
have sex again until I’m married that
was such a radical thought until I saw
other people walking like that and it’s
like well she can do what I can do that
oh yeah well listen freedom looks good
on you girl it looks good on you too mo
I think it looks good on all of us as a
matter of fact we’re gonna take a quick
break and and we’ll be back in just a
just a few minutes to talk more about
this important topic and about how we
can all be free
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[Music]
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this is going to be an incredible
experience where we all get to see what
it’s like to experience God’s unfailing
love we are incredibly loved incredibly
valuable and incredibly capable of
blowing it that’s why we are in the book
of Hosea I want you to experience it I
want you to be able to enjoy it I want
you to be able to taste and see that the
Lord is good if you’re lost the message
of Hosea is that God will find you if
you’re ashamed he’ll cover you if you’ve
wandered off he’ll come get you if you
have given up on him he is not going to
give up on you if you have found
yourself in Chains and in slavery and
you don’t know how you got there he will
buy you back and give you freedom that’s
the incredible scandal of God’s love he
would do whatever it takes to restore us
that kind of unfailing love
what changed everything
welcome back welcome back we are having
a great conversation a strong
conversation if you’ve got a teenager a
young woman in your life you’re gonna
want to pull her clothes make her sit
down watch just a little bit we have
some strong incredible free women that
are on our program today that are
helping us to just kind of get some
clarity on the issue of promiscuity
pornography just sex in our culture and
how we can really just know that our
power as women is not found in our
sexuality but it is found in Christ so
these two incredible women are have been
helping us with that
and I want to ask you a little bit about
that fifty Shades of grace is the name
of the program because of Fifty Shades
of Grey did you find in your role at
Teen Vogue
did you find any noticeable sort of
measurable effects that you guys were
able to detect at all in the lives of
young women as a result of this
phenomena of a book and n movie that
just sort of ran rampant across the
culture was there anything that you guys
detected and what your readers wanted
and what they were asking for and what
intrigued to them I think as far as Teen
Vogue you know we definitely content
wise we steer clear of things that can
you know walk that fine line so I think
as far as the content of the magazine
that’s something that we have not delved
into but as far as like a work culture
yeah I could definitely say that it’s
you know being a having to kind of have
a pulse finger to the pulse of pop
culture you know that is something that
everyone’s talking about everyone’s
going to see it’s very much how do you
not address it in a magazine like Teen
Vogue when it’s what everybody’s talking
about I think you know to a certain to a
certain level they respect the line of
you know the the age gap that we have
with readers and knowing that certain
things we just are not going to address
yeah but I think you know as far as kind
of the heavier pull is – are you joining
in those conversations when they’re
being had at work you know are you
kind of the curiosity to pull at you and
you know are you going to go see it
because it’s what everyone’s talking
about are you going to go see it to be a
part of this this culture in this moment
in this you know conversation on social
media and I think you know to it to a
certain extent it’s important that you
know we as Christian as women we put a
stake in the ground and say that like
I’m not crossing this line this is
something that I’m not going to be a
part of and I think it’s important to
have that vision for you know what you
know that God’s calling you to what life
he’s he’s calling you to lead and what
light and you know he’s calling you to
be and decide ahead of time what things
that you’re gonna take part in and what
things you’re not and if this is
something that you know once you pre
decided something I’m not gonna do
something I’m not gonna take part in
there’s such power in that and you don’t
have to continue to make that decision
as you know the book is out another
movies out and oh there’s a conversation
about it and now you know once you draw
that line yeah okay I want to talk a
little bit about the stake in the ground
that you talked about those Sheena
because you told us in in the earlier
segment that you did put a stake in the
ground in your own life what did it look
like for you to come from living a
certain way indulging in certain things
enjoying your life and the way you chose
to then and then becoming a Christian
and choosing that you were going to not
do away with your sexuality forever
because sexuality is important part of
every woman’s life but that you were
going to kind of corral that part of
your life it it’s not like it’s just an
easy thing to do especially living in
the environment that you’re living in so
what did that practically look like for
you what parameters did you have to put
in place to begin to walk in this purity
that you wanted so much for your life so
I was actually in a long-term
relationship for three years at the time
when when I got saved and it’s crazy
because that sex was the thing that I
put up as the wall and but in between
you know me and God and I’ve been going
to church and I’d been getting closer
and I felt like maybe I’m a couple of
weeks before that day when I made that
decision I heard and understood the
gospel for the first time in my entire
life and I understood all the freedom
that he gave us and that’s when it
started changing my heart that how could
I do these things how could I how could
I just walk away from now knowing all
the freedom that
giving us yeah and one day I broke down
and the words came flying out of my
mouth I have to stop having sex and that
was actually my salvation moment in that
moment that was a moment I stopped
running that was a moment I stopped
fearing that I had to protect my
relationship I had to protect this guy
that I thought was gonna be my husband
it’s obviously not what did you lose him
over this issue whether or not there
were a number of things I the very next
day I went to him and I said I’m so
sorry I’m so sorry this affects you I’m
so sorry that I’m changing my part of
the bargain in this deal I’m so sorry
that I’m the one changing but I can’t do
this anymore
and ribose it and it that’s awesome and
I don’t know what’s gonna happen to our
relationship I don’t know if you’re
still my husband what was his response
his response was that he was supportive
and yeah like 24 hours yeah yeah and I
and I had to and I had to be really
clear with here’s what here’s what we’re
gonna do here’s what we’re not gonna do
yeah
and quickly it became okay here’s what
everything we’re not gonna do because
it’s it’s a slippery slope and a gray
area is yeah you can’t so I made it very
black-and-white and God is faithful
because regardless got was like okay
well he’s not your husband so he just
went to work and moved everything out
and that relationship broke up quickly
and it’s for the better it’s it’s
amazing because he’s not the person you
know and then after that relationship
did it become easier for you then or did
you still have to put parameters in
place to make sure that you stayed it
became easier because the immediate
threat is gone but and now it’s as I
said it’s deciding ahead of time I am
NOT gonna go past these levels this is
where I draw the line I will not go down
that path with someone and then that way
like you know having a great area having
an area where your reasoning now that’s
such a dangerous territory yeah keep it
black and white this is what I will do
this is what I will not do this is how
we’ll honor God and when it gets to a
certain point you shut it down
yeah and it didn’t happen and I think
that everybody needs to be aware of the
the courage that it takes to make that
decision especially when you’re like you
were in a relationship where things had
already been experienced and you’re
having to bravely go to a person and say
hey I’ve made this decision and this is
what we’re gonna do this what we’re not
gonna do it takes courage and it always
it doesn’t always pan out positively
like everybody’s not going to applaud
you and be okay and the relationships
gonna work out it could be that you’re
going to lose this person that you care
about very very much because they’re not
on this journey with you but that is a
choice that you made and it doesn’t look
like you’re suffering from that choice
at all my friend I I cannot tell you how
much you know after the fact it I felt
like I got all of me back I felt like no
man is ever gonna have power over me no
man is ever gonna have a piece of me I
will never have to live with this there
was this terrible struggle going on
while I was trying to do that and trying
to run away from God at the same time it
was too much and knowing just the the
peace you know in my soul afterwards
after that the no longer having that
tension between you know fighting
between what I wanted my life to be and
what I know God was calling me to and
it’s like okay God’s God’s gonna win in
this guy’s gonna win so okay so mo I
have a question for you as a married
woman now
yes I want to know cuz I’m just I’m
hearing little sweet Sheena over here
talking about how she’s saying you know
I’m not I’m not gonna let a guy have
kind of power over me like that I I want
to know as a married woman now how you
balance this important perspective that
you’re your own woman and that you are
coming into your own freedom all that
stuff that’s all great how do you
balance that with the reality that as a
married woman in some sense you were you
were voluntarily now having to you’re
having to shift that mindset just a
little bit so that you are voluntarily
in a relationship where he is the leader
mm-hmm he I am submitting myself to his
leadership not to be a doormat to be
walked over but because I know that this
is the kind of order that the Lord how
do you shift your mindset cuz it doesn’t
just happen when you say I do you don’t
say I do and all of a sudden just want
to be submissive you have to kind of set
yourself up for that so how do you be a
powerful strong single woman live the
adventure with God enjoy being alone all
that great stuff but not walk down that
path so much that when the time comes
for you to join your life with another
you’re not willing to voluntarily do
that easily do that I love that question
I love it because I very much just like
Sheena was you know boldly walking in
this independence with the Lord and
guarding my heart guarding my body and
it’s interesting because I thought well
sure when we say I do a switch will flip
and I will you know suddenly fully be
able to give of myself but the tears on
my honeymoon sort of proved that very
wrong because I realized all this
bondage that existed that I didn’t even
know I was you know trying to be
performance-based you know and I had
never let myself with other guys go all
the way so therefore I had the bit of
this barrier up in my own heart and body
with my own husband to ever fully
surrender every every piece of me and it
just we were a hot mess on that cruise
it was interesting and he is the most
gracious man and and drew me in I mean
the food good though the food was so
good but that made it like a hotter mess
you know because some of the thing it’s
a long story but you know he was he was
a man who drew me in and for the very
first time I understood that sex was
like this holy threesome between the
husband and the wife and Jesus and he is
Jesus is a very real part of this
equation this marriage not just in the
vows of you know the day-to-day you’re
the man I’m the woman this is what you
do this is what I do but in in all of it
including the sexual relationship
including everything we became one flesh
and so what that means is that you know
sexes is truly an act of worship with
that one flesh which is why it’s it’s so
out of whack when you’re out of marriage
because it’s just not it’s not the right
type of worship it’s like keys or off or
something but when you are truly like in
worship and marriage following becomes a
gift to have a strong leader you trust
to be able to surrender yourself to him
and sometimes sex to be amazing and
intimate and romantic and sometimes
you’re laughing the whole way through
and sometimes you just really don’t want
to
but you know your husband doesn’t eat
that and you surrender and it ends up I
mean at all it’s just this beautiful
dance you learn that’s awkward at times
and it’s you know funny at times and
it’s amazing at times but it’s this true
act of leadership and Submission that
it’s really beautiful and when it’s with
a husband who you know honors you and
cherishes cherishes you and sees you as
a gift and a prize and treats you right
and well following becomes a treasure
comparable to following the Lord yeah
you follow a good man a good husband
who’s seeking the Lord as well and it
knocked my independence out pretty
quickly when I when I got that gist I
liked it she knew what do you think
about that I’m just thinking I’m just
saying if you’re in a very your get a
very interesting place in your life
you’re a young woman but you’re very
successful you’re living this sort of
progressive independent standing for
righteousness God all this stuff but I’m
also very successful on my job you’re
like this you know you’re you’re one of
the kind of statistical images of women
who anivia statistical and not not a
negative statistic but a statistical in
the sense that you’re one of these very
successful independent doing it on our
own kind of women and I think in general
for women that are single and are doing
it on their own it can sometimes be hard
to sort of meld that into a relationship
I don’t I haven’t even asked you if
marriage is something that you desire
but if it is so so do you think that
it’s going to be hard for you to bring
all of the success and independence and
all that good stuff underneath the
covering of a husband no because and
first of all I think it’s up sigh it’s
beautiful yeah it is absolutely
described it beautifully yeah I I
absolutely hope that marriage is in my
future I hope that the Lord has a man
for me I pray for it all the time you
know we got cameras I can put a call out
I know who’s watching
[Laughter]
but I you know I think independence is
it’s a very interesting concept when
you’re when you’re a believer because I
am absolutely submissive to the Lord
I am absolutely so you want what he
wants oh absolutely yeah and and I’m
absolutely not walking alone I’m not
just out there rigid and like power
through it I’ve live with my two best
friends I’ve got a community of women
that we’ve been building over the years
and God has just blessed us with you go
to a great chasing Liberty Church in New
York it’s awesome yeah and you know
there are checks and balances there
there are there are people that I’ve
allowed to speak into my life there are
people whose lives that you know I speak
into and and we we lock our Minar when
we do life together
in all things and I think there’s
absolutely going to be a shift when
that’s you know I when I’m one with a
man hopefully one day awesome man
my you know what but I think you know it
is planning and preparation and all
things that you know I love that I live
with two girls who they you know we see
each other through thick and thin and
through awful times and when we’re are
worse than our best and all of that and
and so you know I absolutely cannot wait
until one day you know for it to be
marriage but it’s amazing to understand
and to walk in freedom and wholeness as
an individual and know that even if
that’s not something that’s ever it that
gotta ever has in the cards for me that
I’m not waiting to be to be hold on to
be one or waiting for someone to
validate me or to give me power in a
certain thing you that’s good
okay baby has been great and listen
freedom really does look good on these
girls it looks good on me it can look
good on you too no matter what you’re
struggling with whether it’s this issue
we’ve been talking about or it’s
something else that’s just kind of got
you shackled and feeling a little a
little bit like you’re not able to live
fully and freely and without fear of
consequences and regrets listen you
don’t have to stand for that in your
life not one more day you can be the
woman that God has called you to be and
you can start today you don’t even need
to wait til tomorrow
freedom can be yours today and so I’m
going to be praying to that end I hope
that you have enjoyed our program today
because we sure have enjoyed having this
conversation please join us again next
time
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you