Priscilla chats with Lecrae on the stage of his current world tour – Unashamed – and discusses not only his life and ministry, but his newly released book, “Unashamed” – available May 3rd!

hey there I’m so glad that you’re

joining me thanks for being here you’re

going to be glad you’re here let me tell

you why because I get the privilege to

talk to someone who is not only let’s

see a poet a songwriter a rapper an

industry changer an innovative person

who has brought life to what could be

considered a dying genre really within

particularly faith-based circles but

really on a broad spectrum as well and

so you know there’s so many layers to

this guy and more than all of that I am

a mom of some kids who have fallen in

love with the Lord and with faith

because of the work of looker Wow thank

you so much for being here

I’m so glad that you’re here it’s good

to talk to you it’s awesome it’s a

privilege it’s good to see you I feel

like I feel like I know you because yeah

I’m in the car with the boys and I mean

they got the bass going the windows down

guess what cray everywhere we thank you

thank you to your boys yes they love you

and so tell us tell us where you are

right now people want to know where you

are what you’re doing what’s happening

in your life presently man I am I’m a

hundred percent right now in in tour

mode in album mode and daddy mode so how

are you doing that tour and daddy at the

same time so what I do is every break

while the the team may ride on to the

next city on the tour bus I fly home to

give my wife a couple days off and good

job good job

good yeah so it’s a task at hand

especially when used to stand up super

late on a tour yeah wake up to kids

school make breakfast and so but it’s

been a blessing you know and I know

it’ll it’ll pay off as dividends in the

end so cool so yeah well if you are not

aware lecrae is a Grammy award-winning I

mean let’s be clear happened it happened

it happened not just once two times two

times Grammy award-winning rapper now I

hear you’re a little bit opposed to the

Christian rapper label and why is that

so I am a Christian yes you are a

Christian is an incredible now either

you look in the Bible there’s Christians

in the Bible Oh

sometimes it’s a confusing adjective so

sometimes when you put it in front of

something else

it can what does it mean you know

you mean that you’re going to agree with

the content doesn’t mean the content is

going to be god-honoring what if the

song is about marriage what how does you

know and how does that work and so for

me I feel as if there’s some due

diligence that needs to be done in terms

of using that word as an adjective a lot

of times do you think it pigeonholes

pigeonholes you like it makes people put

expectations you had a label around what

you’re going to do what you’re going to

present to them that kind of put you in

a narrow bracket sometimes absolutely

so it’s happened plenty of times before

where it where as I think there’s an

expectation a lot of times people think

if you say it’s Christian it’s for

Christians something beneficial for me

if I pick this up because I’m not a

Christian and and I would say no no no

no no yeah the air you breathe was given

to you by God and you love that air I

know you do so there’s something for you

there’s some common grace and in it and

that common grace I extended my music

and I want everybody to be able to you

know absorb it in for to you know to be

effective for whoever listens how do you

think you’ve been able to cross the

spectrum from sort of a Christian pocket

in a Christian niche over into this

secular you know appreciation that

people have honey because very few

people that kind of start in this pool

of faith-based whether it’s writing or

whether it’s singing or rapping or

whatever very few people are able to

kind of put a foot in both world and

still maintain their level of integrity

in their art and in their message how do

you think you’ve been able to do that by

I think the reason why it’s not theirs

first of all there’s models and I think

a lot of people haven’t explored the

model so you look at something like dr.

mundo the king who is appreciated by

people outside the faith yeah but also

is it esteemed within the faith as well

and I think it’s because there’s an not

just a proclamation model but an

incarnate model right so also deep

that’s not a so dude was it in this

brain effort of regular people like me I

think Christians we have we have limited

ourselves to just proclaiming and not

being incarnate and living and I’m

hearing about this the issues of our

society and in the world sometimes will

feel like all y’all care about is

talking about which I want to talk about

do y’all care about us the

care about our pains or hurts our woes

our struggles what do you have to say

about you know the this issue of racism

and segregation and and systemic

oppression do you have a voice on any of

these things or do you just want to come

in and and and and say you know your

little tripe sayings yeah and speak

Christianese to us and and what I think

I’ve tried to do is speak about all the

things that would affect people you know

from all walks of life yep but I’m just

speaking about them from my worldview

from my perspective which I would hope

is lined up with God’s perspective

that’s cool and I appreciate your

perspective actually in fact I’ve got my

hands on one of the very first copies I

don’t think they gonna let me keep this

one I’m not even supposed to actually

one that feels good yeah they’re lonely

listen to me it’s one of the first ones

I tried to get them to let me have it

they won’t work it out I was gonna let

you you like put the boys my son’s name

my name my husband things you said it

now sits out I know that’s it I just

don’t think they care I think because I

think I still don’t take it back but

this is well the very first copies of a

book that you have to get your hands on

I actually got ahold of this last night

I’ve already read a huge portion of

completely captivated by the sense of

mission in this book like it’s not just

a memoir but it’s very clear that the

reason why you are recounting where

you’ve been is because you try to point

the reader yeah tour what your mission

is what your purpose is that it’s not

just about good music yeah which by the

way the music is good but it’s not just

about that you’re actually trying to

accomplish something I think it would

benefit people who just know you because

they are listening to you or their teens

are listening to you I think it benefit

people to hear a little bit about where

you came from because it wasn’t all just

roses and white picket fences you have a

story to tell any whether they are roses

so just sort of in a nutshell yeah how

does your story to becoming unashamed

which by the way I love that this is

clever to me because it’s not just like

you’re unashamed of the gospel it’s kind

of like you were ashamed and now you are

on that’s good you have been made you on

your shame you you got it is that what

their goal here with this morning okay

good all right so tell us sort of where

the shame

in your past yeah and then how you got

that little dash in there that made you

unashamed yeah um I think a lot of the

long story short it’s gonna all come

back to being abandoned by my father

right a biological father and I think

every boy just looks up to the dead no

matter what that could just be any kind

of terrible person but there’s just

something that looks at dad as this hero

until you learn otherwise and for me to

not have my hero there and not have a

good explanation or understanding of why

it made me feel like I was the problem

and I felt insecure and so I’m

constantly fighting for the approval of

people and fighting for someone to

validate me never having a dad to say

good job son I’m proud of you you made

it that’s what it means to be a man this

is how this looks you grow up looking

for that in every other place you can

possibly find it and um you know for me

what it did was it made me ashamed of

who I was if who I was didn’t fit in

yeah if Who I was like you’re always

trying to negotiate how do I fit into

this pocket so I can be accepted exactly

feel the love that really even when you

felt it though I remember feeling about

that even when you felt accepted though

there was still a hole that doesn’t get

filled because it’s just a dad size

holes absolutely the dad yeah absolutely

and and so you’re wrestling constantly

wrestling trying to figure it out in

your you’re finding anything you can to

fill that hole right in and of course

there’s the irreligious way and that’s

what I did I chased the irreligious way

of just you know the prodigal son of

partying it the drugging the you know

promiscuity and just looking for it and

trying to find acceptance and meaning

there and it wasn’t satisfying and then

you know there’s a religious way to that

people try to fill that void that’s not

yep fulfilling women exactly and it’s

performing for acceptance and having the

mindset that if I just do better god

will love me more the people of God will

love me more instead of understanding

the grace of God and that I’ve been

accepted already and it wasn’t on

account of anything I did it was

kind of him yep and that really got me

to a place of like hey I’m already

accepted whatever yeah I’m on a shame

let me go ahead and be honest cuz

there’s nothing anybody can do that

there’s no condemnation for you you know

now that I’m in here and I had to ask

you this because as a mom of voice so

you know when I see you I see my voice

you know what I mean I see my sons I see

the hope that I have for them that they

will have integrity and character as

husbands and fathers and leaders later

that they will enjoy their craft that

they will be excellent in their craft

but I resonated so much and my heart was

torn so much when I read about abuse

that you suffered in your life and I

want you to talk about that a little bit

because really what I want to get to are

a couple of questions about it one being

is there anything that could have been

done around you to stop that yeah

earlier then it stopped your mother was

very responsible after she found out

about it your calling but is there

anything that could have done that that

could have happened so tell us just in a

nutshell about the abuse anything that

could have been done to signify the

people around you that it was happening

yeah and put a halt to it and then how

you break that cycle physical sexual

abuse how you break that cycle now as a

dad you’re so honest about you know what

my wife sometimes have to put has to put

my anger in check because I’m just doing

what I saw right and so how do you break

that so that it’s not something that

remains systemic and you’re in your you

know your family line yeah I think one

well the first thing is I mean you said

it’s systemic right so so there’s a

history there that dates way beyond me

that dates back to you know a family of

sharecroppers and and not having you

know this family structure because

families were split apart because people

were sold to other plantations and so

it’s it keeps trickling down so where

grandpa doesn’t understand how to raise

a family and now there’s 16 kids over

here and there’s all this stuff going on

so this is this historic systemic cycle

yeah that keeps repeating itself over

and over again and um and so I think my

mother’s idea was okay I’ve got to break

the cycle I’ve got

figure this out a lot of it was

education for her and you know and just

trying to navigate through that

understanding and I don’t think there

was much she could have done just

because even she wasn’t fully aware of

the you know how this this cycle had

influenced family members and you know

friends around us and so I don’t think

she would have even realized that and

you know it’s a different time where

people trusted each other here take my

kid let him stay with you for the night

and is stuff that you know I wouldn’t

have to have a background check for

these days yeah yeah cuz this is just

like a 17 year old babysitter yeah it’s

just helping your mom man

to hang on to you for a little while

absolutely and a female babysitter which

is so interesting because I think people

we so play up in our culture the abuse

of a male to a young female but it’s

very it’s a very prevalent thing where

there’s a young male with a female who’s

taking advantage of that and I and and

I’ve since talked a lot of other guys

who’ve experienced the same thing you

know we it people make light of that but

it’s a real thing that has long-term

effects that I’ve experienced myself and

so yeah I think that moving forward it’s

it’s a conscious effort and you’re in

and for me not having these models in

place to to see what it looked like to

be you know brought up in a certain type

of environment I have to read books I

have to ask questions I have to stop and

ask married couples hey houses I stopped

and asked parents you know even you know

stopping here your husband talked a

little bit in and take mental notes and

and just constantly learning and

realizing that you don’t have it all

figured out yeah and there’s a wisdom in

a multitude of counselors and that’s

what’s helped me to break some of these

cycles is because I’m aware that they’re

actually cycles so what do we do what do

we do about these systemic issues

particularly in the african-american

culture look crank yeah what is what is

your message going to be to my three

sons to your own son to all these

particularly younger men that are

listening to you watching you and of

course integrity in your own your own

life because you know you like it or not

they’re watching what you did with the

kind of husband you’re going to be the

kind of father grandfather later on that

you’re going to be and how you’re going

to handle this ministry but really

business and outreach that God has given

you but but what do we

do as a people as a as a society to try

to break these horrible cycles again

that plagued our culture in general

yeah but particularly african-american

men I think it’s like 70 or 80 percent

yeah

our single-parent homes because our men

are missing right yeah you know some

people call it a post-traumatic slave

syndrome where you’ve got men who were

never you know on a plantation they were

not they didn’t have to be responsible

for the kids they were just used to

breed them go on and get some work done

have kids all over the place and just

and work where can you find and it’s

almost as if that mentality that cycle

that systemic perspective is just

trickled down don’t you think like

people are using that as an excuse

though I think some people think that I

don’t think everyone realizes how it’s

perpetuated in our own homes

and our own environments right so I

don’t think people realize how it’s

perpetuated and how different different

time periods have given way to that

being a crutch not I mean so you know I

mean you can name all types of the war

on drugs there’s all types of different

things that would that could bring in a

reason to lean on that right yeah but um

but I think it’s understanding who you

are and understanding your identity is

understanding that you know despite your

circumstances despite what you know

society or culture that you grew up in

you were made in God’s image that your

image bear that Ephesians 2:10 that you

that God has created you for good works

that he’s already pre-planned yeah and

and you got to understand that and walk

that out in and a lot of the issue does

stem from the church has to be the

leaders in our society in our culture

we’re we’re the ones with you know this

information and understanding where we

come from and our value and our are

worth and are we got the answer exact

like the one true answer exactly yeah so

I think that’s where a lot of it has to

come from and unfortunately in the black

community in african-american community

the church after the civil rights era I

feel like has been kind of silent for

the last 30 years in terms of like being

a voice in the community it’s kind of

like I’ll just just come to service and

you know and so that silence has many

people say well you guys have been quiet

why should we list

and that’s why I feel like the incarnate

part has to take place we’ve got to be

visible we’ve got to be present and yeah

in the community other people to say

okay this is a trusted voice yeah that

can tell me about being a father being a

husband being a leader so so if the

music was stripped away yeah no more

music who would you be I definitely you

know the music is a creative outlet to

express passions express burdens desires

pains turmoils I think I would probably

be some sort of professor at a college

or something like that so you love

teaching yes I love shaping I love

shaping and influencing so it’s not so

much the structure of teaching as much

as it is shaping culture and looking for

ways to shape culture into and I think

college students are those young minds

you can launch out into society who are

just idealists and they’re gonna take

something and they’re gonna run with it

yeah so I would see myself in that realm

some kind of way being an influence well

what’s next for you what’s next I mean

you just you just dropped an album yeah

put out church clothes three does it

make me sound old that I just said album

no you’re fine do people still say that

well technically it isn’t out it is an

album Turkey baby so I’m not oh you’re

right thank right appreciate that yeah

okay yeah so you just dropped an album

yeah um you’re on tour on tour

Hank you know wrapping up the tour um

you know the book you know May third is

everywhere everywhere yeah like I heard

Barnes and Noble has a hold on this they

just like can’t wait to get it on the

bookshelves long as people run in there

and go get it from bazan over where

we’re in a good place by the way there’s

some really really great photographs

yeah I had to put you know I’m a product

of public schools you know I needed

pictures in my book so that’s amazing

yeah and for all the Millennials out

there we did an audio book as well you

did I was read your bedtime stories cuz

I know that’s ugly but yeah I really um

I’m you know the book is an exciting

piece and that’s what’s happening and

I’m back in the studio this summer

working on a bigger full-length project

and I’m excited about that

so that’s so great and you didn’t tell

us your wife’s name what’s Dara like

Sarah with the D and how long have y’all

been married we are 10 years 10 years

million years we have a big celebration

three kids how old are they uh four

seven and eight there you go yeah and I

read in here it says underneath their

picture that they are your priority

priority priority how did that how does

she know that how does she know that

she’s your party like what does Lecrae

do oh could tell his wife to show his

wife that she’s the one yeah um I mean

my wife enjoys quality time okay and so

that’s her love like yeah her love

language is quality time and and she

knows that’s not mine so so for me to

sacrifice my time I dare ask you what

yours is I’m like words of information

in service acts of service

okay so yeah so you know hers is is

quality time and for somebody who

travels all the time that’s huge yeah

it’s kind of like so you know for me to

to fly at 6:00 a.m. flight back home

when I just got offstage at 1 a.m. it’s

like she’s like okay I’m at her

yeah yeah okay that’s good so those

things like that you know we and we

build the schedule around her and the

kids every year will make sure nobody

can touch family camp you know we take

our family to camp and get refreshed

there’s just sometimes nobody can touch

our vacations and anniversaries and her

birthday and so it’s just things like

that where you know you make sure their

party I prioritize some who say this is

kind of selfish but when I the way I try

to look at it is I have to be healthy so

I’m not emotionally spiritually and

mentally healthy I’m no good for

and so a lot of people will sacrifice

their own cells for the sake of career

and family and so on and so forth but

and then they lose their family exactly

they’re not healthy

exactly I have no sense of well-being

and centeredness or soundness about

themselves exactly no relationship with

God that’s vibrant no intimacy to give

out and so you’re empty yeah so

constantly making sure that I’m taking

time to be full so that I can give back

to my family and then if there’s

anything left over then yeah dad’s gonna

have it well listen i get i keep getting

ready to in the interview but I keep

thinking of stuff to ask you okay so you

have a picture in here with your pastors

yeah I love that picture because I

thought here’s this guy that has two

Grammys and he’s still making sure and

sees the importance of being under the

covering for for a man to remain under

the covering of another who he will

submit to their authority yeah that

that’s a huge problem too with men of

any culture yeah to just say I’m not too

successful that I don’t need somebody

that’s over me that I’m gonna submit to

them why is it important to you um well

I mean even that word authority right

like when you think about it and if aura

tea means you know you can’t speak from

a place of authority unless it’s been

given to you in it unless I submit to an

authority I can’t speak with an

authoritative voice and and and so I

think it’s one is part of the biblical

framework it’s it’s admit to your your

pastors and and I think I’m more afraid

of being a rogue out here you know I

don’t I like a loose cannon yeah we’re

uh yeah I mean I just seen how

detrimental that is for people and just

to have a great pastoral leadership that

cares about me that you know I know my

wife is it’s taken care of and it’s

comfortable and they’re gonna check in

and and make sure that the home front is

safe and and then also not afraid to

tell me I’m wrong you know I’m you need

them yeah come on I’m type person tell

me I want to know you know I mean don’t

let her out no don’t leave me out here

gone looking crazy right is it sitting

me down and say hey you needed know

it’s gay so that’s a bit yeah well

listen I want to say Bravo I want to say

Bravo because you have represented well

I’m grateful and you you are influencing

a generation of particularly again

everybody because I’m listening to you

my husband’s listening to you so you

have a lot of us that are influenced by

your music but again as a mom of young

boys the fact that I know I can trust

your music and those that are associated

with you and my boys can listen to it

and know the words and know the songs

and be influenced by them we actually

made them by the way sit down and look

up the words to the song not just be

singing them but look at the words know

what he’s saying there’s a message in

there that he’s saying look it up so

he’s going to talk to us about what he’s

trying to tell us big and so the fact

that I can do that and know that there’s

gonna be something of substance there

from my voice I just say bravo Bravo I

mean we’re all for you we are means a

lot yes so silly it is I appreciate that

thank you grateful really course

you