Priscilla chats with Lecrae on the stage of his current world tour – Unashamed – and discusses not only his life and ministry, but his newly released book, “Unashamed” – available May 3rd!
hey there I’m so glad that you’re
joining me thanks for being here you’re
going to be glad you’re here let me tell
you why because I get the privilege to
talk to someone who is not only let’s
see a poet a songwriter a rapper an
industry changer an innovative person
who has brought life to what could be
considered a dying genre really within
particularly faith-based circles but
really on a broad spectrum as well and
so you know there’s so many layers to
this guy and more than all of that I am
a mom of some kids who have fallen in
love with the Lord and with faith
because of the work of looker Wow thank
you so much for being here
I’m so glad that you’re here it’s good
to talk to you it’s awesome it’s a
privilege it’s good to see you I feel
like I feel like I know you because yeah
I’m in the car with the boys and I mean
they got the bass going the windows down
guess what cray everywhere we thank you
thank you to your boys yes they love you
and so tell us tell us where you are
right now people want to know where you
are what you’re doing what’s happening
in your life presently man I am I’m a
hundred percent right now in in tour
mode in album mode and daddy mode so how
are you doing that tour and daddy at the
same time so what I do is every break
while the the team may ride on to the
next city on the tour bus I fly home to
give my wife a couple days off and good
job good job
good yeah so it’s a task at hand
especially when used to stand up super
late on a tour yeah wake up to kids
school make breakfast and so but it’s
been a blessing you know and I know
it’ll it’ll pay off as dividends in the
end so cool so yeah well if you are not
aware lecrae is a Grammy award-winning I
mean let’s be clear happened it happened
it happened not just once two times two
times Grammy award-winning rapper now I
hear you’re a little bit opposed to the
Christian rapper label and why is that
so I am a Christian yes you are a
Christian is an incredible now either
you look in the Bible there’s Christians
in the Bible Oh
sometimes it’s a confusing adjective so
sometimes when you put it in front of
something else
it can what does it mean you know
you mean that you’re going to agree with
the content doesn’t mean the content is
going to be god-honoring what if the
song is about marriage what how does you
know and how does that work and so for
me I feel as if there’s some due
diligence that needs to be done in terms
of using that word as an adjective a lot
of times do you think it pigeonholes
pigeonholes you like it makes people put
expectations you had a label around what
you’re going to do what you’re going to
present to them that kind of put you in
a narrow bracket sometimes absolutely
so it’s happened plenty of times before
where it where as I think there’s an
expectation a lot of times people think
if you say it’s Christian it’s for
Christians something beneficial for me
if I pick this up because I’m not a
Christian and and I would say no no no
no no yeah the air you breathe was given
to you by God and you love that air I
know you do so there’s something for you
there’s some common grace and in it and
that common grace I extended my music
and I want everybody to be able to you
know absorb it in for to you know to be
effective for whoever listens how do you
think you’ve been able to cross the
spectrum from sort of a Christian pocket
in a Christian niche over into this
secular you know appreciation that
people have honey because very few
people that kind of start in this pool
of faith-based whether it’s writing or
whether it’s singing or rapping or
whatever very few people are able to
kind of put a foot in both world and
still maintain their level of integrity
in their art and in their message how do
you think you’ve been able to do that by
I think the reason why it’s not theirs
first of all there’s models and I think
a lot of people haven’t explored the
model so you look at something like dr.
mundo the king who is appreciated by
people outside the faith yeah but also
is it esteemed within the faith as well
and I think it’s because there’s an not
just a proclamation model but an
incarnate model right so also deep
that’s not a so dude was it in this
brain effort of regular people like me I
think Christians we have we have limited
ourselves to just proclaiming and not
being incarnate and living and I’m
hearing about this the issues of our
society and in the world sometimes will
feel like all y’all care about is
talking about which I want to talk about
do y’all care about us the
care about our pains or hurts our woes
our struggles what do you have to say
about you know the this issue of racism
and segregation and and systemic
oppression do you have a voice on any of
these things or do you just want to come
in and and and and say you know your
little tripe sayings yeah and speak
Christianese to us and and what I think
I’ve tried to do is speak about all the
things that would affect people you know
from all walks of life yep but I’m just
speaking about them from my worldview
from my perspective which I would hope
is lined up with God’s perspective
that’s cool and I appreciate your
perspective actually in fact I’ve got my
hands on one of the very first copies I
don’t think they gonna let me keep this
one I’m not even supposed to actually
one that feels good yeah they’re lonely
listen to me it’s one of the first ones
I tried to get them to let me have it
they won’t work it out I was gonna let
you you like put the boys my son’s name
my name my husband things you said it
now sits out I know that’s it I just
don’t think they care I think because I
think I still don’t take it back but
this is well the very first copies of a
book that you have to get your hands on
I actually got ahold of this last night
I’ve already read a huge portion of
completely captivated by the sense of
mission in this book like it’s not just
a memoir but it’s very clear that the
reason why you are recounting where
you’ve been is because you try to point
the reader yeah tour what your mission
is what your purpose is that it’s not
just about good music yeah which by the
way the music is good but it’s not just
about that you’re actually trying to
accomplish something I think it would
benefit people who just know you because
they are listening to you or their teens
are listening to you I think it benefit
people to hear a little bit about where
you came from because it wasn’t all just
roses and white picket fences you have a
story to tell any whether they are roses
so just sort of in a nutshell yeah how
does your story to becoming unashamed
which by the way I love that this is
clever to me because it’s not just like
you’re unashamed of the gospel it’s kind
of like you were ashamed and now you are
on that’s good you have been made you on
your shame you you got it is that what
their goal here with this morning okay
good all right so tell us sort of where
the shame
in your past yeah and then how you got
that little dash in there that made you
unashamed yeah um I think a lot of the
long story short it’s gonna all come
back to being abandoned by my father
right a biological father and I think
every boy just looks up to the dead no
matter what that could just be any kind
of terrible person but there’s just
something that looks at dad as this hero
until you learn otherwise and for me to
not have my hero there and not have a
good explanation or understanding of why
it made me feel like I was the problem
and I felt insecure and so I’m
constantly fighting for the approval of
people and fighting for someone to
validate me never having a dad to say
good job son I’m proud of you you made
it that’s what it means to be a man this
is how this looks you grow up looking
for that in every other place you can
possibly find it and um you know for me
what it did was it made me ashamed of
who I was if who I was didn’t fit in
yeah if Who I was like you’re always
trying to negotiate how do I fit into
this pocket so I can be accepted exactly
feel the love that really even when you
felt it though I remember feeling about
that even when you felt accepted though
there was still a hole that doesn’t get
filled because it’s just a dad size
holes absolutely the dad yeah absolutely
and and so you’re wrestling constantly
wrestling trying to figure it out in
your you’re finding anything you can to
fill that hole right in and of course
there’s the irreligious way and that’s
what I did I chased the irreligious way
of just you know the prodigal son of
partying it the drugging the you know
promiscuity and just looking for it and
trying to find acceptance and meaning
there and it wasn’t satisfying and then
you know there’s a religious way to that
people try to fill that void that’s not
yep fulfilling women exactly and it’s
performing for acceptance and having the
mindset that if I just do better god
will love me more the people of God will
love me more instead of understanding
the grace of God and that I’ve been
accepted already and it wasn’t on
account of anything I did it was
kind of him yep and that really got me
to a place of like hey I’m already
accepted whatever yeah I’m on a shame
let me go ahead and be honest cuz
there’s nothing anybody can do that
there’s no condemnation for you you know
now that I’m in here and I had to ask
you this because as a mom of voice so
you know when I see you I see my voice
you know what I mean I see my sons I see
the hope that I have for them that they
will have integrity and character as
husbands and fathers and leaders later
that they will enjoy their craft that
they will be excellent in their craft
but I resonated so much and my heart was
torn so much when I read about abuse
that you suffered in your life and I
want you to talk about that a little bit
because really what I want to get to are
a couple of questions about it one being
is there anything that could have been
done around you to stop that yeah
earlier then it stopped your mother was
very responsible after she found out
about it your calling but is there
anything that could have done that that
could have happened so tell us just in a
nutshell about the abuse anything that
could have been done to signify the
people around you that it was happening
yeah and put a halt to it and then how
you break that cycle physical sexual
abuse how you break that cycle now as a
dad you’re so honest about you know what
my wife sometimes have to put has to put
my anger in check because I’m just doing
what I saw right and so how do you break
that so that it’s not something that
remains systemic and you’re in your you
know your family line yeah I think one
well the first thing is I mean you said
it’s systemic right so so there’s a
history there that dates way beyond me
that dates back to you know a family of
sharecroppers and and not having you
know this family structure because
families were split apart because people
were sold to other plantations and so
it’s it keeps trickling down so where
grandpa doesn’t understand how to raise
a family and now there’s 16 kids over
here and there’s all this stuff going on
so this is this historic systemic cycle
yeah that keeps repeating itself over
and over again and um and so I think my
mother’s idea was okay I’ve got to break
the cycle I’ve got
figure this out a lot of it was
education for her and you know and just
trying to navigate through that
understanding and I don’t think there
was much she could have done just
because even she wasn’t fully aware of
the you know how this this cycle had
influenced family members and you know
friends around us and so I don’t think
she would have even realized that and
you know it’s a different time where
people trusted each other here take my
kid let him stay with you for the night
and is stuff that you know I wouldn’t
have to have a background check for
these days yeah yeah cuz this is just
like a 17 year old babysitter yeah it’s
just helping your mom man
to hang on to you for a little while
absolutely and a female babysitter which
is so interesting because I think people
we so play up in our culture the abuse
of a male to a young female but it’s
very it’s a very prevalent thing where
there’s a young male with a female who’s
taking advantage of that and I and and
I’ve since talked a lot of other guys
who’ve experienced the same thing you
know we it people make light of that but
it’s a real thing that has long-term
effects that I’ve experienced myself and
so yeah I think that moving forward it’s
it’s a conscious effort and you’re in
and for me not having these models in
place to to see what it looked like to
be you know brought up in a certain type
of environment I have to read books I
have to ask questions I have to stop and
ask married couples hey houses I stopped
and asked parents you know even you know
stopping here your husband talked a
little bit in and take mental notes and
and just constantly learning and
realizing that you don’t have it all
figured out yeah and there’s a wisdom in
a multitude of counselors and that’s
what’s helped me to break some of these
cycles is because I’m aware that they’re
actually cycles so what do we do what do
we do about these systemic issues
particularly in the african-american
culture look crank yeah what is what is
your message going to be to my three
sons to your own son to all these
particularly younger men that are
listening to you watching you and of
course integrity in your own your own
life because you know you like it or not
they’re watching what you did with the
kind of husband you’re going to be the
kind of father grandfather later on that
you’re going to be and how you’re going
to handle this ministry but really
business and outreach that God has given
you but but what do we
do as a people as a as a society to try
to break these horrible cycles again
that plagued our culture in general
yeah but particularly african-american
men I think it’s like 70 or 80 percent
yeah
our single-parent homes because our men
are missing right yeah you know some
people call it a post-traumatic slave
syndrome where you’ve got men who were
never you know on a plantation they were
not they didn’t have to be responsible
for the kids they were just used to
breed them go on and get some work done
have kids all over the place and just
and work where can you find and it’s
almost as if that mentality that cycle
that systemic perspective is just
trickled down don’t you think like
people are using that as an excuse
though I think some people think that I
don’t think everyone realizes how it’s
perpetuated in our own homes
and our own environments right so I
don’t think people realize how it’s
perpetuated and how different different
time periods have given way to that
being a crutch not I mean so you know I
mean you can name all types of the war
on drugs there’s all types of different
things that would that could bring in a
reason to lean on that right yeah but um
but I think it’s understanding who you
are and understanding your identity is
understanding that you know despite your
circumstances despite what you know
society or culture that you grew up in
you were made in God’s image that your
image bear that Ephesians 2:10 that you
that God has created you for good works
that he’s already pre-planned yeah and
and you got to understand that and walk
that out in and a lot of the issue does
stem from the church has to be the
leaders in our society in our culture
we’re we’re the ones with you know this
information and understanding where we
come from and our value and our are
worth and are we got the answer exact
like the one true answer exactly yeah so
I think that’s where a lot of it has to
come from and unfortunately in the black
community in african-american community
the church after the civil rights era I
feel like has been kind of silent for
the last 30 years in terms of like being
a voice in the community it’s kind of
like I’ll just just come to service and
you know and so that silence has many
people say well you guys have been quiet
why should we list
and that’s why I feel like the incarnate
part has to take place we’ve got to be
visible we’ve got to be present and yeah
in the community other people to say
okay this is a trusted voice yeah that
can tell me about being a father being a
husband being a leader so so if the
music was stripped away yeah no more
music who would you be I definitely you
know the music is a creative outlet to
express passions express burdens desires
pains turmoils I think I would probably
be some sort of professor at a college
or something like that so you love
teaching yes I love shaping I love
shaping and influencing so it’s not so
much the structure of teaching as much
as it is shaping culture and looking for
ways to shape culture into and I think
college students are those young minds
you can launch out into society who are
just idealists and they’re gonna take
something and they’re gonna run with it
yeah so I would see myself in that realm
some kind of way being an influence well
what’s next for you what’s next I mean
you just you just dropped an album yeah
put out church clothes three does it
make me sound old that I just said album
no you’re fine do people still say that
well technically it isn’t out it is an
album Turkey baby so I’m not oh you’re
right thank right appreciate that yeah
okay yeah so you just dropped an album
yeah um you’re on tour on tour
Hank you know wrapping up the tour um
you know the book you know May third is
everywhere everywhere yeah like I heard
Barnes and Noble has a hold on this they
just like can’t wait to get it on the
bookshelves long as people run in there
and go get it from bazan over where
we’re in a good place by the way there’s
some really really great photographs
yeah I had to put you know I’m a product
of public schools you know I needed
pictures in my book so that’s amazing
yeah and for all the Millennials out
there we did an audio book as well you
did I was read your bedtime stories cuz
I know that’s ugly but yeah I really um
I’m you know the book is an exciting
piece and that’s what’s happening and
I’m back in the studio this summer
working on a bigger full-length project
and I’m excited about that
so that’s so great and you didn’t tell
us your wife’s name what’s Dara like
Sarah with the D and how long have y’all
been married we are 10 years 10 years
million years we have a big celebration
three kids how old are they uh four
seven and eight there you go yeah and I
read in here it says underneath their
picture that they are your priority
priority priority how did that how does
she know that how does she know that
she’s your party like what does Lecrae
do oh could tell his wife to show his
wife that she’s the one yeah um I mean
my wife enjoys quality time okay and so
that’s her love like yeah her love
language is quality time and and she
knows that’s not mine so so for me to
sacrifice my time I dare ask you what
yours is I’m like words of information
in service acts of service
okay so yeah so you know hers is is
quality time and for somebody who
travels all the time that’s huge yeah
it’s kind of like so you know for me to
to fly at 6:00 a.m. flight back home
when I just got offstage at 1 a.m. it’s
like she’s like okay I’m at her
yeah yeah okay that’s good so those
things like that you know we and we
build the schedule around her and the
kids every year will make sure nobody
can touch family camp you know we take
our family to camp and get refreshed
there’s just sometimes nobody can touch
our vacations and anniversaries and her
birthday and so it’s just things like
that where you know you make sure their
party I prioritize some who say this is
kind of selfish but when I the way I try
to look at it is I have to be healthy so
I’m not emotionally spiritually and
mentally healthy I’m no good for
and so a lot of people will sacrifice
their own cells for the sake of career
and family and so on and so forth but
and then they lose their family exactly
they’re not healthy
exactly I have no sense of well-being
and centeredness or soundness about
themselves exactly no relationship with
God that’s vibrant no intimacy to give
out and so you’re empty yeah so
constantly making sure that I’m taking
time to be full so that I can give back
to my family and then if there’s
anything left over then yeah dad’s gonna
have it well listen i get i keep getting
ready to in the interview but I keep
thinking of stuff to ask you okay so you
have a picture in here with your pastors
yeah I love that picture because I
thought here’s this guy that has two
Grammys and he’s still making sure and
sees the importance of being under the
covering for for a man to remain under
the covering of another who he will
submit to their authority yeah that
that’s a huge problem too with men of
any culture yeah to just say I’m not too
successful that I don’t need somebody
that’s over me that I’m gonna submit to
them why is it important to you um well
I mean even that word authority right
like when you think about it and if aura
tea means you know you can’t speak from
a place of authority unless it’s been
given to you in it unless I submit to an
authority I can’t speak with an
authoritative voice and and and so I
think it’s one is part of the biblical
framework it’s it’s admit to your your
pastors and and I think I’m more afraid
of being a rogue out here you know I
don’t I like a loose cannon yeah we’re
uh yeah I mean I just seen how
detrimental that is for people and just
to have a great pastoral leadership that
cares about me that you know I know my
wife is it’s taken care of and it’s
comfortable and they’re gonna check in
and and make sure that the home front is
safe and and then also not afraid to
tell me I’m wrong you know I’m you need
them yeah come on I’m type person tell
me I want to know you know I mean don’t
let her out no don’t leave me out here
gone looking crazy right is it sitting
me down and say hey you needed know
it’s gay so that’s a bit yeah well
listen I want to say Bravo I want to say
Bravo because you have represented well
I’m grateful and you you are influencing
a generation of particularly again
everybody because I’m listening to you
my husband’s listening to you so you
have a lot of us that are influenced by
your music but again as a mom of young
boys the fact that I know I can trust
your music and those that are associated
with you and my boys can listen to it
and know the words and know the songs
and be influenced by them we actually
made them by the way sit down and look
up the words to the song not just be
singing them but look at the words know
what he’s saying there’s a message in
there that he’s saying look it up so
he’s going to talk to us about what he’s
trying to tell us big and so the fact
that I can do that and know that there’s
gonna be something of substance there
from my voice I just say bravo Bravo I
mean we’re all for you we are means a
lot yes so silly it is I appreciate that
thank you grateful really course
you