As parents, we all want our kids to grow up with a solid grasp on faith and an understanding of who they are created to be in Christ. But how do we truly impart this revelation from one generation to the next?


well welcome to this episode of

conversations this one’s going to be

really special because i am not only

joined by my husband john but i am also

joined by my firstborn addison and my

last born arden and we’re going to be

having a conversation about something

that’s really exciting john we’re going

to be talking about the transferring of

faith we’re going to be talking about

generational degeneration and we’re

going to be talking about

all things identity now i’m so excited

about the i am book and it is based on

seven key identity declarations and i

love it we’re going to dive into that

but you’re going to want to know how you

can get a hold of this book you can get

a hold of it anywhere books are sold you

can get on amazon barnes and noble

anywhere christian books are being sold

so let’s just dive into that

conversation i am particularly excited

about this conversation we’re about to

have today because this is a crisis it’s

called an identity crisis and you know i

am so proud of you guys for writing this

i am message for coming out with the

study on i am and just the overall

message because here’s my great concern

i look at so many people today

especially in your age groups that their

identity is shaped by

number one what other people say about

me even parents

what social media says about me

or even what i do my identity is wrapped

up in what i do when in reality the way

god designed us

is that we are to know who we are

in christ and out of that flows

what we do and when we do that we now

become people who are walking in a

confidence that that is so important to

be successful in life and what we’ve

been created to do and so

i’m excited about this addison it’s

great to have you lisa arden

just uh it’s great to be here yeah thank

you you know i’m going to open it up

with a question and i’m just going to

throw it to the whole group is that all

right let’s do it all right so this book

explores seven different i am statements

so here’s the seven statements i am holy

i am righteous

i am loved

i am secure

i am confident i am creative i am called

which of these statements resonates the

most with you and which of these has

been harder for you to accept for

yourself personally

who are you directing that anybody

jumping i mean i can jump in because

because i got to teach on

on the one statement that honestly was

something i struggled with for a long

time and that was confidence and i

remember for me confidence was just

something that i very much had a problem

with comparing myself to

to you two to my older brothers being

the youngest brother and kind of having

that expectation that was either put on

by put on me by like the random facebook

messages that would come in or the

people at the book table like the

questions or are you the next john and

lisa bevere and i remember i just

combined times ten yeah exactly yeah

like how many books are you gonna write

when is your book coming out as i’m like

13 years old kind of thing and i’m like

what um but that expectation i remember

it caused me to get all the focus on

what god uniquely put inside of me and

focus in on you two and i was back then

i did not want to go into ministry it

was not the thing that i mean you guys

know i wanted to do kind of some other

things and then god took a hold of me

but back then i was like i even if i go

into ministry i can’t do

anything close to what they’re doing

because i i had a you know i kind of

stuttered over my words it was really

hard for me to get through sentences

because i just lacked confidence and so

it just continued to cause me to go

deeper and deeper into myself and that’s

why i was so excited about sharing about

this because i loved

what we even talked about on the on the

study is we talked about how you know a

lot of people can have that inner peace

of security but then confidence is that

outward expression and sometimes in our

in our world we’re like people mix

confidence and arrogance together like

no confident people are are you know

terrible they’re mean like they’re

they’re like kind of you know abrasive

kind of thing but confidence is this

innermost peace that you have about who

you have been created to be the

authority you walk in and then that’s

the outward expression where confidence

is not used as something to put other

people down but to raise people up and

so that was the statement that i really

took hold of and i remember as i

continued to go into the word of god and

understand what god called me to be as a

son of god that identity was locked into

that and that confidence came not from

my performance not from anything i did

but from the position i held as a son

can i bounce off of that for a second

because what you said was so profound i

look at david and david

was confident and his older brother

accused him of being arrogant

if you read the account of the

philistine i know the arrogance that’s

in your heart but david was just

confident on who he was in jehovah and

he looked at that giant and didn’t see

the giant he knew who he was in jehovah

and who jehovah was in him and he went

with confidence and i love that what you

just said because people are basing

their confidence off of the wrong things

or they have no confidence because they

have no foundation in a relationship

with jesus you know i would take that a

step farther i don’t think that david

was confident in who he was in jehovah i

think david was confident in jehovah and

because he said hey this isn’t about me

this is about saul’s army and i think

when people are intimidated

they will accuse confident people of


being arrogant because they don’t have

that connection i you know it’s funny

that you would struggle with confidence

because that would have been what i

would have struggled with

because of a number of different things

and i remember

a moment looking in the mirror and


i can’t believe i’m agreeing to move

outside of my shell i can’t believe i’m

moving into a new season i’m a

sleep-deprived mother of four children i

have nothing to offer and i heard so

clearly this is not about you

this is about

me you know and so i think that a lot of

times if i place my confidence and my

ability or in comparing myself to other

people i’ve already lost but if i

understand you know it were having this

discussion yesterday about heroes of

faith in hebrews 11. they they aren’t

the heroes they were heroes because they

had faith in

god it said through actions because they

responded to who god was

and yeah so i love that and you know one

of the things

that i love is i’ve gotten to see you

guys grow

in your own manner uh i don’t know that

we made it easy for you


i mean do you i i remember i remember

going to your second grade class and

your teacher telling me

he does not know how to speak up for

himself he does not know how to advocate

and i said he has three older brothers i

i didn’t blame myself in there but i did


yeah austin did tell me at one point

he’s like when i kind of came over that

he was like i’m so glad you have a

personality now

did he really say that to you that’s the

first i’ve ever heard


if i could backtrack for a moment i

think it’s important to give a bit of

context as to what we’re talking about

with the ion book yes and so a few years


we we founded sons and daughters it was

something that god had put in arn’s


and it formed through a series of

conversations and we threw some things

out there and they started to stick and

we found ourselves caught up in

something that had traction it became a

movement and we put this idea of a

covenant out there that people grabbed

hold of and it was these seven i am

statements and when we were going

through scripture when we were taking

inventory of what y’all invested in us

over the years of things that you spoke

over us we found that they could all be

placed within one of these seven i am

statements and then we started engaging

with sons and daughters all over the

world across

gosh i mean

not every time zone but maybe

pretty dang close to every time zone

dozens of countries

um we started to see that the struggle

was the same

the questions were the same the fears

were the same the opportunities were the

same we’re like look we need to create

something that’s bigger than even just a

single culture

a single family a single movement we

need to create something that invites

the global family of god global sons and

daughters together so we can come

together and be like hey this is who we

are in a world that is so confused about

identity this is who we are and this is

what the outworking of our faith looks

like in our cultural moment and so the

seven i am statements if i can just hit

them real quickly i’m holy yeah and can

we just pause on that for a moment

that’s my that’s the one i was going to


can you define that because

yeah i i wonder how hard it is for

any of us to say that as a declaration

absolutely and that’s that’s probably

why the most passionate about that one

in particular because i do feel like

holiness and the idea of the holy is

what religion has used to perpetuate us

first then mentality it’s what religion

has used to be like you’re never good

enough for god unless you fall within

our mechanism unless you do the things

that we want you to do or tell you to do

so it always felt like a control tactic

to me but then when we start to

understand what holiness is which is an

attribute of god’s otherness it’s his

beauty it’s his wonder it’s really that

which cannot be defined right

then we start to realize oh my goodness

what a mystery what a miracle it is to

be invited into god’s nature as sons and

daughters of god when he calls us his

holy ones he is calling us the children

of the holy one he is speaking identity

over us he is speaking beauty and

destiny over us and so for me when i

started to unpack what holiness is i

became so attracted to that idea it is

and jb i remember as a kid hearing you

preach about isaiah 6.

and holy holy holy and you’re west


ireland slash whatever else

australians yeah

accent you would be talking about isaiah

encountering the presence of god and how

the angels they’re not you know they’re

not yelling faithful faithful they’re

not yelling even love love and of course

we know first john before that god is

love they’re yelling holy and what

they’re describing is they’re saying man

god you are so different you are so

other every single moment a new

attribute a new facet of who you are is

being revealed to us and all we can do

is respond holy because there really

aren’t words to describe what we’re

seeing and that’s why isaiah as a

prophet his vocation is to give words to

the plans of god and the person of god

he’s like woe is me i am lost in other

words like i can’t really say anything

how do i articulate this glory that is

other than anything that i’ve ever seen

but then of course the seraphim takes a

cold from the presence of god puts on

his tongue and the man who is saying woe

is me i must be silent is now saying

send me i’ll be your messenger i’ll go

i’ll go tell the world about your

holiness your plans your purposes and so

i think we do we need a generation of

sons and daughters to be like i am holy

i mean just think about what the apostle

paul is writing yeah and i mean almost

half the new testament are letters

penned by the apostle paul and what is

he doing he’s saying to the saints in

philippi to the saints and corn to the

saints in rome he’s talking to gentiles

primarily these are gentile new christ

followers you read the rest of his

letters they were making lots of

mistakes they were still trying to

figure out what it means to follow jesus

and yet he was calling them holy he’s

saying you are the holy ones and it is

from that place of identity from that

place of belonging from that place of

elevation that we find perspective to do

the holy work that god has called us to

so one thing that is


amazing to me is ephesians 1 4 tells us

before the foundations of the world you

know jesus the lamb slain from the

foundations of the world god


that we would be holy

so before we ever prayed a prayer before

we ever did anything good to anybody

before we did any kind of action in

regard to anything we’re called to do

god declared us holy and holy means

you’re set apart god it says i am holy

right which means

like like you always say

i am completely unique into myself in

the way i am right nothing is like me he

says you are separated and you are

identified with me before we ever did a

thing so when we operate out of that


now all of a sudden we have confidence

as you said well and then going to these

i am statements is every single i am

statement it’s you know i am holy so

there’s a continuation it says so i

stand out from the crowd and i think

oftentimes what people always do is they


first put the first part of that

statement first and they say i stand out

the crowd so that makes me holy but like

what you’re just saying is god’s

declared god

yes and so what we try to do is like you

know with there’s i am love so i love

without reservation people don’t

understand that they are loved and so

they withhold love from other people

because they don’t understand the love

that’s been given to them right and so

we tried to make sure that every single

statement was not only just hey we’re

saying this over you but it’s a call to

action it’s because god has already

spoken these things over you this is the

things that he has awaited the response

yeah this is what he has and so that’s

why we did the covenant because we

wanted people to not only just get an

idea and be like hey like this sounds

cool i’m going to sign it kind of like

i’m holy like yeah no but we wanted

their the action and we had thousands

and thousands i mean tens of thousands

of people actually signed the covenant

when we released the covenant which was

so cool because it was a cry for people

saying i want the the hunger point

it has for me yeah you know what we’ve

talked about is the romans where it

talks about the entire cosmos the entire

universe standing on tiptoe waiting for

the unveiling of god’s glorious sons and

daughters and that’s what we were

ushering we’re saying we want to usher

in that statement we want to usher in

this generation to understand that as

the world is constantly questioning

every single thing about your identity

that there has been a rooted destiny an

identity that’s been placed inside of

you because of the word of god because

of god’s spirit and you need to walk in

that yeah like one of the i am

statements is i am righteous so i fight

for justice

and it’s from that place of

righteousness that we actually have eyes

to see

what true what eternal justice looks


and we of course represent a generation

that rightfully so is advocating for

justice in a world that has always been

defined by injustice i mean this isn’t

unique to our generation

our world

has encountered different forms of

injustices i mean that’s part of the

reason why

god did what he did in the person of

jesus was to

show us a new way a new path toward

justice because all our other mechanisms

for justice kind of fell apart and so

as we’re looking at each of these im

statements they do call people to action

and we had people saying hey we love

this short form we’d love for you to go

in greater depth as to what it looks

like to embody these ideas to live from

this place of covenant and to embrace

the adventure that god has called us to

i love that and you know and it’s god’s


god calls those things that are not as

though they were and so he comes to

gideon the angel says mighty man of

valor when he is the least of everything

when he’s hiding when he questions

everything let me just do one more time

for clarity’s sake and so i think that

we need to understand that is the

function of god god says all right this

is how i see you this is how i see you

finished now begin to walk in into that

direction of how i already see you so he

isn’t saying i’d like to see you this

way he’s saying i do see you this way

and i love that i mean before jesus did

anything this is my beloved son in whom

i am well pleased that is just how god

goes he didn’t do i’ll say that when you

guys get on the other side of the

wilderness see if you pass the test with

the devil then i’ll say it no he said it

which i believe empowered jesus

with an identity to go into the


you know and and have that identity

where he could leave in the power what

do you think about what satan says the

accuser the first thing if if if you’re

really if you’re really the son of god

that’s how he begins all of these


yeah at the very beginning because if

you undermine identity you undermine

everything that’s the open door what i’m

thinking as we’re talking here is this

is really a message of humility

i mean think about it years ago

the self-identification began right

i remember i mean this is years and

years ago i mean 10 maybe a guy

identified as a dog and i saw his video

of him eating out of the dog bowl and

all that smelly tragic

somebody that self-identifies that’s


somebody that comes under the statement

of our creator of i am holy i am

right righteous i am confident

consciousness i’m secure i am loving

that person has humbled themselves under

the mighty hand of god

and therefore what does god say i’ll

lift you up

so what people are trying to do

trying to get that elevation from

self-identification which they’ll never

get they’ll never get

a fulfillment out of it

they can find in humbling themselves and

saying okay god you said i’m i am i am


okay i’m loved now i’m it’s going to be

easy for me to love right yeah or what

if they actually don’t think enough of

themselves what if they’re what if

they’re self-identifying because they

think i feel so uncomfortable

as as a person i’m going to be a dog dog

i mean i’m

so they identify as who they’ve been or

what their struggle is in that moment

rather than who god calls them to be

which is that’s where it’s a leap of

faith and we’ve been talking about this

transfer of faith from from one

generation to another and the

deconstruction and the things that

should be brought forward and maybe the

things that were just formed with you

know out any spiritual function and i

think that this is something that

we have seen

loss we have seen there’s certain things

where parents don’t know how to pass on

what is sacred without making it either

uh legalistic or or just oh we’re just

gonna do everything i was recently with

some ministers and they were explaining

to me that um their their senior pastor

is having a very very hard time because

he never wanted to force anything on his

kids he wanted it to be

their you know the this was the parents

decision we want it to be their idea and

yet they’re completely disenfranchised

so they’re asking me how do you find

that balance between what you force your

kids to be involved in and and what you

allow them to develop in their own lives

and it’s a big question you know i just

remember you saying to our sons as they

were growing up you are the you are us

princes we’re raising you as princes you

are disciples you’re taught of the lord

and your peace is great and confident

what did i say over them constantly

speaking what god said about our

children to them but we also didn’t feel


that they were in our family i i know

there’s a lot of ministers

that feel bad like their children oh my

gosh my kids have to go to church so i’m

gonna i’m gonna let them do this or that

and we were really like hey guys you you

were hand-picked for this family you get

to do this you get to do this there’s

like an errand anointing on our family

and this is a privilege

um i don’t know how well we did it but

i’m so proud of you guys um i feel like

you guys are way ahead in those identity

pieces on this holiness piece on the

confidence piece than we were at your


uh i remember us

so yeah arden you should have seen us

when we were your age when you were

struggling like

you would have said whoa yeah there’s no

hope for that that guy you know but

he would have liked his mustache you

know we’ve constantly said to you guys

god has called you to go farther do more

to be more effective and we still want

to see that so much and we believe that

will happen because that’s what our

creator says

abraham isaac and jacob there’s there’s

more fruitfulness with any every

generation and

this is what we really need to

understand is god wants us to be

fruitful if we just

get our identity from who we are in him

yeah and that entrustment always extends

out to

the furthering of people it’s not it’s

not that we’re you know you guys have

positioned us well for our benefit it’s

for the benefit of the people it’s

benefit of the masses and i think that’s

incredible um i think you know often

what i’m seeing right now is like you

guys said it’s the boiling down is we

don’t tell people like you have become a

new creation and going back to

everything that we’ve talked about a lot

of people trying to find their identity

and different like same-sex attraction

or chances i remember i saw something

where someone wrote they said you know i

had grew up for

you know most of my life thinking i was

the opposite sex and i became

you know a male and when i got saved i

like you know up until that point i

believed that i was a man that i was

born a man and they said when i got


my thinking completely flipped because i

realized that i was maybe maybe thought

that but i had to be born again like

maybe i was born supposed to be a man

but they said but that’s why i had to

get born again because a new identity

came over me and that new identity

grabbed hold of me and she said and i

knew what god has created me to be i

knew what god has done and i think right

now too what we’re seeing is we’re

seeing a generation that wants to do

something like they really want to do it

but like well

i’m only seeing there’s a couple people

speaking out there’s there’s only a

couple of people i want to get and going

back to the story of gideon like gideon

was just one person and then you have

the masses come to gideon and god said

nope that’s too many and that was the

story that we really harped on

when sharing around the i am message was

the story of gideon because we wanted to

see that it does not have to be that

you’ve got to wait until there’s this

massive like just huge crowd that’s

going to get behind you and support you

it’s like god’s going to bring the

things that needs to come what you have

to do is trust god in that situation

even when it feels like hey i don’t

think i have everything i don’t think

i’m equipped enough that you’re ready to

step out and i think that’s that’s what

i’m wanting to see from this generation

like well i think the the big heart cry

of sons and daughters is not that

there’s a lack of sons and daughters in

the world but there’s a lack of sons and

daughters who have stepped out into the

fullness of what that actually means

because we would see the transformation

we would see the converts across this

world if we saw more people walking in

the identity i mean going back to david

you know david was

at the battlefield right there up in the

front looking at goliath and what do you

see there was no lack of sons and

daughters of god the entire army of

israel was standing right there but what

there was a lack of was one

son or daughter of god stepping up and

saying you know what that enemy is not

going to hinder this generation of

israel and that’s what we’re looking for

that’s what we want this book to be we

want it to not be that it’s you know

it’s us you know one specific person on

this team but it’s been a collective

group of people that have sewn into this

book that have written into this book

that have given their testimonies how

many contributors do we have to this

book to this book i think if i remember

kirkuk was eight or nine but we had

total contributors that people who

actually contributed to the book it was

something like 45. so maybe eight or

nine authors but forty five so yeah

seriously well no that’s not including

that’s not even including our internal

team it’s people that were yeah people

that sent in things wow yeah and so the

idea is it’s a book for sons and

daughters by sons and daughters and can

i just say just the name sons and

daughters is very very key because we

have a culture since which i’m not

self-identified are you a boy are you a

girl or you’re non-binary see god

doesn’t talk to us as

male or female he doesn’t talk to us as

boy or girl he calls this according to

relationship which is sons and daughters

which is way higher than gender and so i

love that that is a relational dynamic

you know so they aren’t saying are you a

son or a daughter and the questions are

saying are you a man or a woman and it’s

a very interesting that god calls us as

a father his children yeah

so you’ve got a question lisa what’s

your question read do a question all

right all right

okay i love that the book starts with

the question and the question is have

you ever found yourself thinking

is there more

is there more

that’s what his question is that’s the

question that’s the question i mean

and it says is there more is there more

life than this is there more to this is

there more to me

and uh

what kind of conclusion have you come to

uh yeah

again i would say every day i pretty

much wake up with that question i go to

bed with that question and i do think

that’s a part of what paul is describing

in first corinthians 15 when he talks

about dying daily i do think that there

is a sense of dying to what we believe

is possible

more stuff it’s not it’s not more stuff

i mean please that that narrative has

been tried so many times but don’t you

think that

for more will never ever be

satisfied and that’s because

ecclesiastes 3 11 says eternity was

written on our hearts and so there’s

something inside of us that is so

spacious it’s eternal it connects us

with the very heart of god which is

eternity and so we will always

want something more i think well can i

bring the scripture in on that to to

affirm you yeah that we groan

romans 8 talks about us groaning yeah

to become the fullness of the sun it

talks about creation groaning and

we participate as part of christ

yes we are groaning in in ephesians um

or paul’s writing about the holy spirit


an inhere or a down payment for a future

inheritance right like that’s all tied

in as well because paul’s breaking down

in romans 8 the impact of the spirit and

how we can start to participate and the

reality of being sons and daughters of

god romans 8 14 and 15 through the

spirit right so that is a part of what

we get to participate in now but the

truth is and paul writes as first

corinthians 13 we do know in part right

now right and a part of the experience

that we have is a partial experience and

so we can grow in that i’m not saying

that we can’t grow and experience new

depths but i think the question that we

have to ask ourselves because we do

approach life for the most part we

approach life in this binary either or

sense either i have it or i don’t and i

think maturity requires us to realize

there’s always going to be more and

that’s a part of the adventure that’s a

part of the gift of life and you can’t


to wait to be satisfied until you have

it all and i think a lot of people today

when it comes to their identity when it

comes to their purpose

they’re like i will never be satisfied

till i have it all and they’re missing

out on the growth and the joy and the

meaning of what’s happening today the

way the needle is moving in their life

today and their relationships and their

purpose um and their sense of identity

all of that and so what we want to

provide to people is a way for them to

be more aware of what god is doing in

their world right now and through them

right now because that will locate them

in this present time because i think a

lot of people are trading their time for

nothing because they don’t view their

time as valuable and that’s one of the

greatest schemes of that and they don’t

think there’s more ahead so they’re

taking it now right it’s to convince us

what you’re doing right now is

significant that’s why jesus says in

matthew 6 he’s like hey don’t worry

about tomorrow like tomorrow’s going to

have cares and concerns of its own i

want you to be present to what god is

doing today because god is the only one

who gets to live in the past present and

future we get to live in the present if

we try to live in the past or the future

we are guess what we’re doing we’re

given into idolatry and what happens

when we become idolaters our lives fall

apart and so we have to trust god with

our past because the past is not ours we

have to trust god with the future

because the future is not ours what we

have is we have the present and how we

live in the present of course dictates

what the future is going to look like

and so

i don’t even know how

the grinding the groaning is good

because it keeps us on the journey but

we need to be content in the journey is

what i’m hearing you say absolutely the

groaning is a part of what awakens us to

what’s meaningful today in the journey

it’s both and it’s not either or

and and i mean i love what proverbs 25

says this purpose in the heart of man is

like deep waters and the man of

understanding draws it out you have to

keep going back to those deep waters so

you don’t go back to a well one time you

go back to it again and again and again

and again and you draw it out and

there’s a way to live

with a with a sense of purpose and a

sense of passion where you continue to

go back and draw out and not just live

on what you once experienced so you know

i i still can’t shake this though

because i feel like there’s some people

out here that really need to hear that

and i feel like i’m failing and saying

this clear i think about the path of the


is upward right that shines brighter and

brighter all right until the day dawns

and the morning star arises in your


that yearning for more keeps us going

rather than just stopping

i can say as a man who’s walked with

jesus over 40 years i have that groaning

that yearning knowing that every day

there’s a possibility of growing closer

and even more intimate with jesus and

becoming more like him because the goal

the goal of the father was that we be

conformed to the image of his dear son

and that’s why paul said i’m pressing

towards the mark of the high call that

was to be conformed to his image and so

it’s okay to have that groaning and

going is there more is there more the

problem is is when we look for more in

my position at work when we look for

more and having a bigger house when we

look for more i’m getting more

popularity having more people following

me on instagram

that more will destroy us the more that

we should yearn for him is to be

conformed as his image so we can have

intimate fellowship with him that’s what

makes us fruitful because again that’s

laboring out of our identity instead of

finding our identity out of what we do

now i think and to your point i agree

with you and to your point i think a lot

of people because they don’t understand

the journey of more they either are

consumed in pursuing things that don’t

really matter that aren’t going to

satisfy that yep or they reject the idea

that there’s more yeah they reject the

idea yeah yeah that god has something

greater for them they quit and because

they feel like they’re not there now

they believe they will never be there

and that’s why i think there is an

appropriate way and how i started what

paul says first corinthians 15 to dying

daily and saying god you speak these

things over me i know this to be true

and i might not see it today but i

believe that you can give me eyes to see

what i’ve yet to see yeah right and

that’s that’s the journey we’re all on

yeah can i can i skip uh my question and

actually steal addison’s question

because i think this is a really good

question i know we’re getting it

we’re getting closer to you know time on

this but um

i wanted to ask everyone if you could

communicate one thing to sons and

daughters of god about who god is and

who he created them to be what would it

be because i think that’s a big thing i

think a lot of people are are trying

they’re like yeah well i understand i’m

a child of god but what does that mean

what all encompasses that i know we talk

about that within the book so i mean i

think that’s a great tool and resource

to grab a hold of to be able to really

understand those seven nights and him

statements and what it means to be a son

or daughter but what would you guys

communicate to them well one thing

that i have found that i think it’s a

little bit of a shock to people is god

isn’t looking for reasons to reject them

judge them

he is not disappointed he is not on the

sidelines of their life wishing they

would do it better he loves them he

loves them and i i feel like that

somehow has been lost and so what

happens is we have this idea that we

have a wicked deceptive heart that we

read about in the book of jeremiah and

so why would god love us if we have this

wicked deceptive heart why would god

love us and so there’s this kind of

confusion to me in the gospel for a lot

of people about even being born again

what happened when you get born again do

you have to still have a wicked

deceptive heart and you’re just trying

to be good and god loves you but you

still are wicked and just it a lot of it

does he doesn’t really love you he just

loves jesus he loves jesus and jesus

said he tolerates them yeah jesus is

like pleasers tolerate them don’t look

at what they’re doing jesus is like

hiding it please don’t see it

no that’s kind of the mindset

he’s hiding so i think there is

such a need for a deep revelation

that god

doesn’t just have love for them

he is

love for them i mean and that’s just a

hard like god like i have love for john

but i am not love for john and that is

who god is as a person and i think when

we have a revelation and you’re talking

about that i am loved when when you have

a revelation of the god who is


then you can actually hear him call you

by name and when you have that

connection of father and son or father

and daughter then he tells you i love

you and who you are to me is more

important than what you could ever do

for me

so you’re like okay wait i thought i had

a calling he’s like yeah your calling is

to be my son and my daughter and out of

that out of that relationship there is

an outflow of what we bring to the earth

whatever that entrustment is and i just

think too few people

really understand the love of god i

think they understand the shame of their

sin the fallen nature of adam

the the mistakes of that moment that day

i don’t think they have a revelation of

this fierce love of god for them i

really don’t anything and the scripture

says he’s made us accepted in the and

beloved even the word acceptance ever

did a thing and you know a lot of people

they want they want to be accepted they

want to be embraced right they want to

be affirmed god says i made you accepted

among the beloved before you ever ever

yet enemies so we operate out of that

being accepted into his family into his

citizenship and out of that we live and

if we live out of that we’re secure

i just look at jesus and and i think

your question that you just asked a son

or a daughter

is in the image of their father

and a racer i’ve said this time and time

again a racehorse cannot give birth to a


a racehorse cannot give birth to a

squirrel a thoroughbred racehorse will


birth to a horse that has the potential

of being another champion correct and

this is what really angered the

pharisees because jesus identified with

his father

he said i have come out of my father and

he claimed him to be his father and

they’re sitting there going

you’re saying you are in the exact image

of god and yeah and that’s what

infuriation in john 5 it says they were


because he was doing these miracles on

the sabbath but then it goes on to say

they wanted to kill him because he was

calling himself the son of god that was

the reason why they wanted to kill him

now let me put this scripture with you

first john 3 beloved


we are the sons and daughters of god

not not not when we get to heaven right

beloved now and i’m so glad john the

apostle under the inspiration the holy

spirit said now but you do realize the

spirit of the world and this is the

world that jesus is talking about in

john 15 and john 16. the spirit of the

world does not want us to identify as

the sons and daughters of god and the

spirit of the world is tied into the

spirit of religion because really

they’re one and the same so well the

system is running this yeah this yeah

exactly they feed each other they do

yeah we need to view religion

that kind of religion that you’re

talking about as deadly as going to a

bar and getting flat out drunk which

some people are terrified of quite

possibly i’m terrified of the spirit of

religion yeah

what’s that

i’m just trying to say no you know

people have their images of what you


let’s just speak practically you look at

the a lot of millennials in gen z right

now who are de-churched or don’t want

anything to do with church it’s a spirit

of religion for a lot of them that drove

them away a lot of those people it was

the spirit of religion and now they want

nothing to do with church they don’t

want anything to do with anything that

looks or smells like it could be


and we’re having to navigate that now

like with the people that we’re leading

and the people we’re engaging with and

so but they’re also partnering with the

system of the world by even going down

there so it’s an interesting thing so

there comes this thing where you have to

come on a pure road

and that’s the because neither it’s it’s

the whole pendulum swift idea the

pendulum swing idea like it’s you’re

choosing the lesser of two evils but

you’ll find that both of them are going

to lead you to the same place very well

said so the i think the one of the one

of the final things that i want to ask

is what did we do right and wrong in

communicating our faith and our

relationship with jesus to you sons i

mean let’s just get open and honest here

okay can we just

anything that would just think about

anything that would help people

listening to us right now and we’re hey

listen and we’re okay with saying what

we’ve done we were we were nine years

apart so we really did have different

experiences that’s true we really did

have yeah i think addison could tell you

a lot of the wrongs and maybe i can tell

you something right

yeah i really wish i could do addison

all over again that way i i’m anyway we

can talk about that hey um well i mean i

think some of the things that you guys

constantly did right was what you guys

have already talked about is that you

continue to declare the word of god over

us every time that we believed a lie

from a friend believed a lie from a

teacher believed a lie about ourself

we constantly heard the word of god

counteract and fight those lies and you

guys continue to speak that but then not

only that but you guys showed the

relationship side of um honestly our

relationship with god and and that was

something so beautiful to see and i know

you guys have talked about this a lot of

times um but i think when parents

show that it’s so much deeper than just

getting your kid to church it’s this you

have a relationship with your creator

and watching you know dad of course

every almost every day seeing you

reading your word and coming running out

and being like look at this

what god said in his word that i’ve read

probably 60 times the moment it was

awkward for you but it stuck but it

stuck and i remember i was i started

having conversations with my friends

about the word of god i remember i

started pulling those revelations that

you would come running out to the

breakfast table and be like look what i

just read and it just didn’t seem

relevant at the time but what happened

was it began to be ingrained in my

subconscious and when my subconscious

which controls and you know dictates so

much of my thinking and my life is

developed by the word of god rather than

the word spoken over by you know the

world it’s gives me the second nature of

being able to react and respond based on

what the truth says about me and the

truth says about this word so that was

something i really appreciated mom i

mean you every single night praying over

us you know speaking declaring truths i

think i remember singing with you in the

car do you remember that yeah

i don’t know if he was gonna go there

but yeah no no just arden and i would be

in the car and i remember we would be


and the presence of god would just fill

the card do you remember that i’d say

arden do you feel that and you’d be like

i do

you know we just gave honor to the

presence of god when we would feel it

yeah thanks thank you i really needed

that i appreciate that do you want to go

ahead and tell the wrongs




no i mean

what i feel like you have other things

is that it the other things yeah uh i

mean that’s what that’s what i was

thinking all right let me think about

more jump in okay because i you all did

a lot of open door policy uh

i wasn’t going like in specific things

like that i’ll be i’ll be specific about

some things so i have four kids my own

and so i i do have a greater sense of

appreciation for the things that you did

right because it’s not easy to do

a lot of these things

but one of one of the things that really

stood out to me and was a big part of my

formation even though i didn’t enjoy

reading the bible until i was quite a

bit older but seeing you

every day

in the word

every day getting up to pray i mean

that can’t not leave a mark on someone

like when you see someone that committed

to a specific habit all of his pens oh

yeah all of his pens which i don’t have

my bible here but like i have become you


it’s it’s crazy my bible is i use i

actually use a credit card or a ruler so

my lines are straighter but i really

have i’ve become you and that was one of

those things that that didn’t

well up in me until much later until

really even like after bible school it

didn’t well up in me until i was in my

early 20s

and yet that was something that was a

huge part of my childhood mom for you

something that you did i call them our

bathroom conversations i spent so much


because you were gone a lot especially

when i was when i was a kid um since i

spent so much time just sitting on your

bathroom floor while you were doing your

makeup or taking your makeup off or

whatever i would lay on the bathroom

floor i would sit on the bathroom floor

and we would just have conversations we

would talk about anything and everything

and you you definitely developed a sense

of wonder in me and the desire that i

have today to find beauty in things i

really do attribute to you

and so yeah absolutely and and so i

would say one of the

the hallmarks of how y’all parented us

and transferred what was in you to us

was also your consistency

like y’all definitely made mistakes um

your mistakes were very intense when you

made them yes you’ve been very

vulnerable i’ve said i’m sorry so many

times until finally one day addison said

you don’t need to say i’m sorry no more

yeah we both apologize you guys would

always apologize humility creates safety

it always felt safe even though

sometimes it was pretty crazy it would

always feel safe eventually because we

would come back and we would reconcile

and create that safe environment but you

guys were consistent like you guys were

the people who you presented yourself to

be outside of the home and that was huge

and when you weren’t you apologized and

you made it right and there’s the old

saying that rome wasn’t built in a day

but it was built daily and i do think

it’s one of those things like it is in

the daily and i know there are parents

out there listening to this and you’re

like man i’ve been doing what feels like

the right thing for a stinking long time

but i’m not seeing what i’m supposed to

see or what i want to see and i would

just encourage them and say you will see

it eventually

it it will it will have its season where

it will come to the surface and people

will see it for what it is and i would

just encourage them to be faithful with

the day i really believe that the battle

for our children is won and lost with

how we navigate the day and when we do

miss the mark coming back and

apologizing and humbling ourselves it it

just increases respect and trust and

love and transparency in homes and in

the world that we live in today with all

the craziness and all the conversations

that are happening and

people are inundated with information in

a way that no other generation has had

to navigate

kids need a safe place to navigate what

they’re hearing in the home and if they

don’t get it in the home they’re going

to find it somewhere else and so i think

if kids can feel safe to process

questions about faith about god about

why we do the things that we do that’ll

help solidify their faith because our

job as parents being as a parent is to

train a child not to be dependent on us

right the the children who go sideways

are the children who

vigorously become independent of their

parent because their parents were trying

to make them dependent on them for the

rest of their lives or the kids who

never learn what it is to go off and be

independent so they can enter into

interdependence with their parent which

is a healthy flourishing relationship

and so

those are some things that i would i

would call yeah

i think it was um

i like camera’s name his last name was

right but he um i think it’s h norman

wright or anyway is he right no he’s a

theologian but no it was a it was a

child psychologist and he had said the

goal of every parent is to raise

children that are independent of you and

dependent on god and i just thought that

was a great balance um to just say hey

and so when we messed up we that was

always our like hey our default you know

i love these i am statements i love that

you guys have taken the time to compile

them and not just do it as

offhand declarations that you would just

stick on a bathroom mirror but these are

things that if they allow these things

to be woven in them it actually becomes

a map it becomes a map that’s going to

take them from where they are to that

place of everything that god created

them to be and i just would tell every

single parent that is listening to this

this is the kind of book you want to put

in the hands of your children i would

say this to every single youth group

leader like if you are seeing well

there’s a sin problem well it’s usually

an identity problem and so if you can go

down deep into these i at these core

seven issues i know that this book will

weave not just like a a rescue net but

just like a trampoline and propel people

into what god has for them so i mean

what i love about this book is you’re

getting the benefit of two generations

and i’m going to say something

heartbreaking i’ve seen i’ve observed

two responses with children with

minister appearance uh one response is

i’m going to go completely away from the

the roots that my parents instilled in

me but what you guys did is you got the

gist of what we were saying of what god

did in our hearts for 40 years of

walking with jesus but then you added

your 35 years your 27 years into this so

you’re really getting two generations of

wisdom because of the way and and what i

love about you guys you each have your

all you guys that participate in this

book have your own voices i mean you do

not sound like your carbon copies of

john and lisa bavir that was the biggest

challenge was creating a synthesis of

all these different voices but that’s

also what created really what makes the

book so beautiful yeah because it is a

synthesis of so many different voices

from different continents from different

age groups and i would also say it’s one

of our proofreaders he’s um almost 40

and he was going through and he told me

he was just bawling as he was going

through it and he i love that he has

children of his own and he was telling

me he’s like listen i thought this was a

book for young adults he was like but i

realized when i was reading this is for


anyone who needs a fresh revelation of

what it is to be a child of god anyone

who needs that fresh revelation so say

the title again

i am i am and then the

subtitle want to do

yeah it’s claim your identity find

freedom and embrace it and embrace the

invention the praise we just call it


it’s a big uh subtitle because i am has

so much in it but if you look at what

jesus did in john’s gospel with the

seven i am statements arguably eight i

am statements depending on who you talk

to but what he was doing is he was

redefining sonship and that’s why he

used the term father more than a hundred

times from john 5 to john 17. jesus uses

the term father over a hundred times and

i think we as sons and daughters of god

across generations we need a fresh

revelation of what it is to be sons and

daughters of god it’s like what he said

to mary right jesus first first message

after his resurrection what is it

go and tell them that i go to what my

father and their father my god and their

god first message

first message

breaches closed yeah and i really do

believe that that is the key to uniting

generations into forging purpose a sense

of belonging like you were saying the

courage to go into the unknown to find

what god has for us individually and

collectively and our world needs that

our world needs that well everybody

we’re out of time and i just want to

remind you please review rate and

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do is actually help more people get the

message of conversations and the other

thing i want to mention is the i am book

is available i’m so excited about this

it’s available on amazon it’s available

everywhere books are sold it’s available

on the messenger store and the other

thing that you can immediately jump into

right now is if you got messenger x and

if you don’t have messenger x where have

you been anyway just go to the app store

type in messenger x the entire app is

completely a gift to you we ask you to

join with us in this mission to disciple

the nations of the world but you can get

on this app and get the i am study

that’s already on the app so you can

dive in before amazon gets your book to

you tomorrow you can dive in before

messenger sends it to you just get going

on this because i’m convinced when we

really grab a hold of this message of

flowing out of our identity rather than

finding our identity in what we do we

are going to be very powerful

instruments for the king of kings we’re

really going to be sons and daughters of

god so until next time this has been

conversations with john and lisa and

addison and arden

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