In this episode, John and Lisa chat about love and relationships with their two daughters-in-love, Julianna and Christian. They discuss how to do marriage well and share practical tools they use to cultivate loving relationships. Tune in to this fun discussion about love and relationships through the seasons.


welcome to conversations I am joined

today with my gorgeous wife Lisa Bevere

and Lisa it’s kind of exciting this is

the very first conversations that we’ve

done on video so for those of you that

are still listening you can actually

watch this on our YouTube channels John

Bevere or Lisa Bevere and today we’re so

excited to be joined by two of our

daughter-in-laws and that is first of

all Christian Bevier and you are the

wife of our youngest son Arden and our

longest standing daughter in love and

that is Juliana who is married to our

oldest son Addison Addison oldest and

smartest anyway so exciting to have

Juliana with us because it reminds us of

Addison last time we talked about Saints

his new book Saints and you know there’s

still time for everybody to go and get

the book on messenger

backslash offer and there’s goodies that

come with a good book if they come as a

podcast listener so we’re very very

excited about that

and we just want to remind you that we

have a family of podcast at messenger

international we call it the messenger

podcast network and that includes let’s

talk about it with sons and daughters


yeah so let’s talk about it and maybe

someday we’ll get to be a guest on that

one and and then we have the messenger

podcast and there’s going to be more

coming in the future I think Lisa’s

gonna do her own I’m gonna do my own

I’ve already yeah we’ll still do it

together because people like listening

to John and Lisa they say it’s like

listening to mom and dad so yeah but

anyway I’m so excited about this new

series we’re gonna open up today on love

and relationships yeah this is the look

this is the month of love the month of

this is February and so we thought it

would be really fun to gather the people

that have been married for a really long

time that would be yes we’re omelettes

really a long time we’re 38 this year we

are 38 38 years

yeah we’re bumping up against four

decades as well as somebody who is 12

years that would be Julianna married to

the Addison st. and then we’ve got

Christiaan Barnard have been married

just a teeny bit over a year and so

different seasons different challenges

different moments different experiences

so we thought this would be really fun

and if there’s some people in mind why

are you talking to single people because

last year if that’s the only people we

talk to you talk to single single single

and if you’re like well I didn’t get to

hear it we have an amazing series called

flying solo it’s free you want to go

back and look at that but let’s go back

to talking about uniting the generations

you know I feel like sometimes there is

a gap between information from one

generation to another and there’s some

there’s some challenges right now so we

want to talk about what does the Bible

actually say about love and commitment

and I you know again we’re not I’m not

gonna quiz my daughter and Liz on this

but we’re gonna be you know actually

just having a conversation around this

and so first thing I want to say is um

let’s let’s open it up to Christian and

dooly-in you guys can ask because I know

how would you like what is the Bible

actually he’s not right or wrong yeah I

wasn’t gonna make you give me verses

okay well yeah I think there are a lot

of questions that people in our

generation newlyweds 12-year married

people all have and it’s important to

gleam from people that have done it well

that I’ve walked it out and I think

there are a lot of questions that we

want to hear especially from you guys

you’re wise you’re not old you’re wise

as the old but yes I wish we when we

were in our 20s and 30s early 30s would

have had an older couple we could sit

down and talk to you like this because

we were great on it we did learn a lot

of things hard at school of hard knocks

yeah I know the Bible says and initially

the reason for the marriage was that it

wasn’t good that they were alone so in

my mind it’s like well it’s good that

you’re together

and I know in my own life marriage has

been single-handedly the best thing

behind my relationship with God which

honestly they went very much

hand-in-hand and it has been something

that’s so good so I do think it’s it’s

good and I think that’s why it has the

potential also to be so bad and so are

you the older couple here I’ve been

gleaning you know John and I have very

much a heart that you don’t have to make

the same mistakes that we’ve already

made and when we did a lot of them for

you guys we’re like we’re gonna do the

majority of the mistakes possible so you

guys won’t have to do that that’s why

okay yeah so alright question what would

be a misconception Christian that you

think a lot of young girls have about

marriage you’re in a year and maybe you

could just talk about yourself what what

was maybe a misconception that you had

before getting married about love and

marriage yeah you know I think it’s

interesting it’s it’s not just two

categories but I think there are two

categories of I want to get married and

I want to be in love or the I’m gonna do

it my own way for a little bit we’ll see

if we cross that bridge when we get

there but I always had the misconception

of marriages are either healthy or

unhealthy that they were two absolutes

it wasn’t you know you can have a

relationship that’s healthy that has

conflict and it can have sharpening and

you can grow over the years I thought

you meet the one it’s perfect and that’s

how you have a good marriage rather than

you know you work at it and it as

marriage as a partnership it’s a

commitment and it’s something that you

actually grow in so what you’re saying

is that there’s a misconception that if

it’s the two perfect people they will

never have a problem right or you meet

the perfect person and it’s all a walk

in the park from there or if you don’t

marry the right person then it’s

absolute torture like I’ve you know I’ve

known couples that started out like

you’re saying you learn things the hard

way to begin with but you are so strong

and connected and I’d say more in love

than you’ve ever been today because of

what you walk through rather than

it was perfect from day one and that’s

why it is still lasting yeah you know if

you look at Malachi chapter 2 it says

God hates divorce why does he hate it

because it produces sons and daughters

of God Lisa and I both see that

scripture in two lights it you get

children that are godly which God wants

godly children but also nobody gets

closer to you than your spouse so

nobody’s gonna see and expose flaws in

you that God wants to see brought out so

you it doesn’t destroy you later on and

marriage has a tendency to expose those

flaws and when they’re being exposed you

don’t think you have them and what you

think the other person caused them right

and I found the older I got I wised up

to the fact that hey when everybody in

the family is pointing something out or

something’s getting exposed and not

going right what needs to change in John

and it’s gotten easier to do I’d say in

my late 40s a decade of 50s and you know

that’s the thing I wish I would have

known when I was thirty that when I

really was seeing Lisa upset with me I

used to think oh she’s got a problem and

now I realize I think you’re my problem

yeah but now I realize oh no this is

something that’s getting exposed in you

and God is giving you an opportunity get

rid of it because we want to be

christ-like yeah you know um I’ve just

been really deep diving into Titus 2 and

it’s interesting how God commands the

older women to teach and train the

younger women yeah how to love their

husbands he doesn’t say how to love your

kids because it’s actually kind of easy

to love babies they’re like oh my gosh

you’re so cute but loving your husband

requires training and this is something

I’ve learned is that love requires

constant ongoing learning you you want

to actually continue to learn to love

how to love better and you know back to

your point and I and I really want to

let Julie jump in here as well but back

to your point conflict isn’t the end of

a good marriage conflict is

actually moving a marriage from a place

of good to even better and John and I we

always say this when we do marriage

conferences you know just to kind of

decompress the room we say we have not

done marriage perfectly not not even

close but we have done it well and well

means you move from a place that is

unhealthy to a place of greater health

and our hope would be that we would

continue to do that have conversations

that continue to move us from a place of

maybe unhealthy or need needs to have

strengthened into a place of greater

health can I ask you guys how do you do

that practically speaking so you’re in a

marriage you’re in a relationship and

you come up against the conflict how do

you move forward in health how do you

move forward maybe if the other person

is still in the mindset no this is just

you it really doesn’t have a lot to do

with me

what what advice would you give well

first of all before you get in conflict

always fight fair and that is don’t

attack your person your your spouse’s

character attack the problem so if you

are being talked to by your spouse and

they assign the problem – this is you

you are selfish instead of saying your

behavior is selfish all of a sudden now

the walls are up

because now I’m I feel like I’m drowning

yeah so Lisa and I had established that

we used to just be so unfair the way we

fought secondly I have learned that the

Holy Spirit is amazing at changing

people’s hearts and you you can block

things out but you’re not called to be a

lawyer and prove these things so that

was where I went wrong instead of just

seating Lisa with something and saying

hey listen this is really troubling me

and let me tell you why

yeah and I would be almost like a lawyer

who would go ABC and then if she can get

it I go back to a then do B again then

you see

wait that would probably yeah that’s

right and instead of really trusting the

holy spirit to talk to her

or talk to me a lot of times it was

talked to me because I really thought I

was right and then I would come back a

week later and go I need to talk to you

about what we had a big disagreement

about last week I really realized that

this this and this about me yeah so and

if it was about her I keep my mouth shut

and just say okay just let the Holy

Spirit take care of it you know one of

the things I feel like was a major shift

was when I stopped listening to you to

get my next point in I’m like thinking

oh okay now I know exactly what I am

going to say as soon as you shut your

mouth I have got something to say but

listening to actually really hear you

and and one of the tools and it’s not

complicated but one of the tools

somebody had gift given me is when John

says something rephrase it back to him

so I’m actually listening to actually

really be able to understand instead of

pushing my point to be understood and I

think a lot of women are like I just

want to be understood by a man I just

want to be I just want him to know the

depths of my soul well I think one of

the better things is instead of trying

to teach them feminine heart language is

to actually model it for them so I think

when you shift from so what you’re

saying is instead of well this is what I

have to say so when I started actually

reflecting back to John because both of

us are passionate so I’d overstate

things heat overstate things so then I’d

say well what you’re saying is I always

do that

you’d be like okay well no it’s not

always but that’s what you said so what

exactly are you and going to the root of

it really really helped I think again

Mary’s tool seek to understand rather

than make your point that’s good you

know I’m interested because you say that

it didn’t always start out in the

healthiest way how did y’all still know

in that timing thing you were made for

each other and this is the person I want

to marry you know I I really am glad you

brought that up because commitment today

is a huge problem for the younger

generation am i right ladies I mean

we’re seeing too many young people

getting divorced and it’s not for

biblical reasons just in writing today I

was I was writing the scripture where

Paul said that marriage is actually an

illustration of the way the church in

Jesus are one and I think so often we

have to look at marriage through a

relationship with Jesus and we have to

look at a relationship with Jesus

through the lens of marriage now let’s

do the first one in in regard to

commitment when we’re fighting in the

midst of a fight right what I want Jesus

to say you know what I’m done with you


I’m so tired of you making this mistake

seven times a day I’m so tired of you

doing this seven times a week I I’m just

done with this okay we’re through I

don’t ever want you doing that with me

okay so now if I am supposed to be the

role of Christ in this marriage that

means no matter how badly I think and

usually I’m wrong Lisa’s behaving I have

to say I’m committed and so love is not

driven first of all by my emotions

although my emotions are very high for

Lisa and I think you girls see that I I

mean I I adore adorable aunt but there

are times that I’m just going if I was

going by my adorable feelings right now

for Lisa I’d be out of this relationship

let’s just be honest but I made a deep

heart commitment long long ago no matter

what it’s the old thing for better or

for worse I’m going to be committed to

her and you know what’s amazing is I’ve

seen enough times where I thought we

were in impossible situations of

conflict and I saw them so resolved it

was like they never happened before yeah

I want to talk about that commitment was

it something that you just made in an

instant and it for almost 40 years has

stayed strong how did you foster it how

did you feed and have it grow into where

it’s that strong within they’ve got

challenged Julie it got challenged I’d

be I’d be lying if I didn’t say that

so in the midst of the challenge I would

always find myself going away and

praying and I wrote something else in my

book today it’s impossible to get into

the presence of God in lie hmm so

anybody that comes out of

say I prayed and I still want to divorce

you when they just don’t like the fact

that they watch certain movies okay you

you weren’t in the presence of God

because see deceit can never stand in

the presence of God if you look at and

the way I one of the things that you see

so clearly if you look at the parable

the talents the guy goes you’re a hard

man and I was afraid of you right well

it’s true that’s what caused him not to

multiply yeah so truth came out in the

presence of Jesus so when I was in when

I was being challenged on my commitment

when I go out and pray it be like I get

in the presence of God and all of a

sudden I was like okay this is this is

totally wrong attitude totally wrong

thoughts I’m entertaining I got I need

to get this back on track and so it was

a firm commitment and it’s in the Bible

I know that that’s going to be

ultimately what makes us the happiest I

look at you know on the dad with the

four kids you get the toy Christmas you

throw the instructions over in the

corner and you spend two hours

assembling it there’s still ten pieces

on the floor you turn the switch and it

doesn’t work and so you get back you

deep the manual you deconstruct and you

reek and it works and I think there

needs to be a firm understanding in all

of us that anything God says in his word

is what’s best for us because he was the

original creator of us so if God says

hey don’t divorce except for the case of

unfaithfulness then that means okay he’s

saying this as what’s best for me yeah

you know um I will say this Julie I know

I was a child of parents that had

divorced twice so for me I was not

willing to make that mistake I didn’t

see either of my parents happier after

they got divorced and so I do know there

was fights where John would actually

bring up divorce and I actually would

not say the word I was like I will not

say that word and I’d get really mad at

my don’t even say that word because I

feel like we actually understood my

parents didn’t but we actually

understood the day that we got married

that we made a covenant not between each

other but between us one another and God

so we were going to make sure we stayed

in the boundaries of that

covenant that meant that we were either

gonna have a horrible marriage and stay

together which neither of us wanted or

we were gonna have to fight for a good

marriage and and that’s that’s the

course that we took and yeah I mean I’m

thrilled you know it’s interesting you

know the one thing I would say there may

be somebody out there that you know

there’s like I did pray and God to me I

could divorce my spouse

well sometimes God will say you you’ve

already made up your mind you’ve already

made up your mind or if there’s a

situation where it’s unsafe we’re not

saying that you should stay in an unsafe

situation you know more and more

churches I don’t think it used to be

acceptable that a husband would abuse

his wife physically and things like that

but more and more there’s sadly women

that don’t feel safe in their home and

men who don’t feel safe in their homes

so we don’t want to put the legalistic

on it but we do think that God is for

marriage and if you say I’m what I want

to do it your way God he’ll honor that

and he can he can override any conflict

that we’ve ever had because like

seriously I have a hard time really even

remembering the big five ring off for 18


it worked

these girls would understand so let me

let me just say this that we’ve got

another program we’re going to talk

about this on the next one this will be

part one so we can pick this up next

week and I just want to say thanks for

tuning in and everybody please subscribe

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again to get Addison’s book called

Saints go to messenger podcast and

that’s dot-com backslash offer and until

next time this has been conversations

with John and Lisa

and Juliana and Christian yeah thanks

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