Perspective is a powerful thing. In this episode, John and Lisa talk about what it looks like to adopt God’s perspective and how it empowers you to face any circumstance with strength. Tune in to discover what it looks like to align your perspective with the Word of God and watch how it transforms your life!


hey everybody welcome to conversations

with John and Lisa and we’re just

delighted to be here to strengthen your

faith during this time that we’ve been

going through with Coby 19 in fact we

just got done in our last episode

talking about breaking intimidation so

apropos for what people are going

through I think the biggest pandemic

that people are facing right now is not

a disease I think it’s fear Lisa I think

you’re right and so it’s really

important if you didn’t hear that

podcast listen to it we’re also offering

it on our messenger courses comm which

we will tell you about at the end of the

show the other thing I want to mention

is that we are now filming our podcast

so Lisa and I have to go to a car you

actually can’t see that but yeah no more

shirtless you know conversations no more

coming in here with our very clear we

have never been sure clearity knew

you’ve never been shirtless nor

seriously we got a dress up yeah babe we

just have to look good because we’re on

camera but anyway I’ve got shorts on

right now but anyway we conversations is

a part of a family of podcasts that we

do at messenger International and we’ve

got the messenger podcast of course and

then we’ve got let’s talk about it with

sons and daughters and we’ve got some

new shows we’re gonna be adding to so

we’re pretty excited about it but I’m

really excited about your new show but

I’m not telling it I don’t want to take

the wind out of the sail so today we’re

going to discuss something I believe is

so important and so do our producers and

that is something that I actually

mentioned on one of my posts on

Instagram and our producer Ellis she

said John we really need to talk more

about this and it’s about having a right

perspective so you’ve heard the famous

saying is the class and a half empty or

is it half full that with the half-full

person absolutely not marriage I’m not

gonna lie about it there’s some there’s

some space there okay so why are we

talking about this

why why at this time in particular

because spective so important because

Lisa I have seen people that are

terrified about the economy about the

disease just about what re-entry is

going to look like and then I’ve looked

at people that are totally pumped

excited I mean it’s it’s it’s so what

would you say polarized there’s no

middle ground when I’m talking to people

they’re either totally enthused or not

enthused and I ask people be enthused

about a pandemic because the people that

are enthused are the people that have

been saturating their lives with the

Word of God and they realized that we

are probably on the verge of the

greatest move of God’s Spirit and the

greatest harvest of souls that in our

lifetime we’ve ever seen so there’s an

expectancy that in this time period this

this pause in between yes that they’ve

actually just said I’m gonna dive deep

into your work I’m going to have the

hard conversations with my spouse with

my children with myself with my god I’m

gonna have those hard conversations and

I’m going to get the right perspective

now of course we are not for a second

saying that this is not a tragedy the

loss of life oh it’s terrible

thud the devastation on our economy yeah

like there’s a lot of unknowns

but actually in the season of an unknown

it highlights the nomes

because this is what you’re talking

about perspective and John one of the

scriptures that that we talk about when

we talk about perspective is Matthew

chapter 6 verse 22 through 23 and I I’m

gonna read it and I want you to actually

really talk about it okay it says in the

NLT your eye is like a lamp that

provides light for your body so that

means it’s like this opening it’s a

light then it provides a portal of light

for your body when your eye is healthy

your whole body is filled with light but

when your eye is unhealthy your whole

body is filled with darkness and if the

light you think you have is actually

darkness whoa we’re gonna have talked

that how deep that darkness is can you

unpack those scripture first so the the

keys here is when Jesus says I he’s

talking about perspective the way you

see things when he talks about body he’s

talking about your entire being so now

with that knowledge let’s read it again

and it’s gonna make a lot of sense your

perspective is the lamp that provides

light to your entire being when your

perspective is healthy your whole being

is filled with light when your

perspective is unhealthy your whole

being is filled with darkness and if the

person if the light that is in you

excuse me let me read it again and if

the light you think you have is actually

darkness how deep is that darkness in

other words you can’t rise above your

perspective if I’m listening to you

right now and I’m thinking wait I don’t

know I don’t know if my light is in me

that is actually darkness in my

perspective is skewed or influenced by

fear how does somebody have a change of

perspective well

the Word of God is what renews our mind

it changes the way we see things and you

know you were talking about just a

minute ago about the pandemic the lives

that are being lost Jesus could have

looked at the cross the excruciating

suffering the embarrassment he chose to

according to the Word of God he looked

at the joy set before him what he saw

was beyond the cross the sons and

daughters that he would have as a part

of his family here God longed for a

family right so Jesus focuses on that

joy and that gave him the ability to

endure the cross let me give you another

example if if you go to a wedding

reception and you have a one-day

perspective going to do this one again

yes I love this one because this really

brings it it brings it into perspective

I did have three chocolate chip cookies

today for lunch I’m just gonna say it

that’s a disclaimer ahead of time I know

where we’re going right now yep because

she’s heard me say this before but if

you go to a wedding reception and you

have a one-day perspective and they have

a whole table with desserts

let me get this out you may not

but if you have a whole table full of

desserts you got a one-day perspective

you’re gonna eat the whole table I mean

anybody would write oh no you’re going

to eat no no no with a one-day

perspective you’re gonna just keep

munching away honey I’ve watched you eat

chocolate okay so anyway we’ve watched

me jog in between the two of us who

consumed some more chocolate but if you

have at this table right now between the

two of us you can see more chocolate

okay there but it’s healthy but anyway

dark chocolate only milk chocolates not

that healthy but anyway if you have a

six month perspective

you’re only gonna eat one or zero

desserts why because you don’t want ten

pounds of fat on your body and upset

stomach tomorrow and you don’t want

compromise long-term health well this is

perspective and the the story that came

to mind when I shared it on instagram

was the time when another very well

known minister made some remarks about

me that was completely not true and I I

will never forget it you know I can’t

even think of which one you’re referring

to cuz we have lived through that so

many times

there’s perspective this one this one

changed my life though I remember I was

just getting ready to get on a plane to

fly too sweet and I was actually at

Chicago O’Hare International Airport and

I’ll never forget it just as I was

getting ready to get on the plane I was

actually in the boarding area

our CFO called me and told me about the

situation I was livid and Lisa you know

I’ve got a really strong personality and

wait are you admitting that yes I am and

you know remember the disk tusks I am a

d squared and the D Squared’s hate to be

taken advantage of and so I wanted to

reach for my phone and call the guy and

chew him out and say don’t you realize

as a lie you need to retract that and

yada yada yada it but I couldn’t because

we were boarding and we got on the plane

I thought I’m not going to have this

intense conversation while I’m sitting

on the plane so I remember falling

asleep and when when I woke up we were

literally circling Stockholm and the

thought hit me and this is god I love it

you know Jobe talks about God’s speaking

to us in the night when we’re not able

to hear during the day

and that would have been your

perspective yeah remember the word

changes our perspective I’m furious I

want to give the guy a piece of my mind

I mean ten thousand dollars oh my gosh

that’s a lot of money yeah and and and

we were young in ministry back then so

that was like even worse than what we

are today yeah what he did robbed us oh

yes and and so I’ll never forget waking

up and I thought wait a minute I can see

this as we’ve been stolen from and be a

victim mm-hmm

or I can maintain control and I can give

it to him and if I give it to him

there’s a harvest that will come back

because second Corinthians chapter nine

says that if you plant a gift you will

receive a harvest and I thought whoa and

I remember calling you and you and I

talking about it and you like the idea

so when I got home I don’t know if you

remember this you and I join hands and

we said father in Jesus name

we are giving him that over ten thousand


we bless him in Jesus name and Lisa did

joy in the piece and I realized I’m not

a victim yeah I’m actually maintaining

control over this situation and do you

know what happened you remember this you

know what happened ten days later this

couple from Texas now you and I live in

Colorado they had flown to Colorado and

they knocked on our front door

unexpectedly and we opened the door we

said oh hello and they handed us a card

they talked for five minutes I think it

was and they said well we’ve got to go

and they left we opened up the card and

there was a check for $10,000 in that

card and I looked at you and I said babe

that is one we probably got another 50

or 99 more to go because God is

multiplying this seed back and that was

all about perspective I could have had a

victims perspective you could have had a

victims perspective or we could have

stayed in control and given and that’s

what we chose to do so I I hope that

what you’re hearing if you’re listening

out there is you can get mad at we’re


that what happened was right we’re not

saying that we denied the feelings that

we were frustrated but you have to sit

to this place and you have to go into

the presence of God and you have to say

I know that the world says get even

slander back Rob back take back yell but

the kingdom of God has a completely

counter cultural narrative than what our

culture has and so when you get a

kingdom perspective then you don’t

you’re saying okay you know what

I’m not gonna be a victim I’m not gonna

say I’m stolen from because I’m gonna

give and we know what the Bible says the

Bible says if they demand your coat give

them your shirt awesome if they tell you

know what if they demand your coat

you’ve been stolen from yeah but if you

give me shirt what happens you’d be I’m

a giver

you actually become a giver and so it

isn’t so much about okay not it’s not

just about controlling the circumstance

it’s it’s about making a choice about

who you are see you can’t control what

happens to you but you can control how

you choose to respond and a lot of times

people don’t understand that you have

the power to choose how you’re gonna

respond he says if they slap you on one

side what do you do you say oh well I’m

gonna try if you’re Sicilian you slap

them back but if you’re a Christian I

turn the other cheek and so you’re right

you turn the other cheek so it is saying

it’s either being a slave or a servant

right absolutely and I even believed by

turning the other cheek God isn’t

volunteering his people to be abused but

sometimes when somebody slaps you on one

side and you turn the other cheek you

actually are looking to see what was

behind that are they lashing out from

their own hurt and then you go from

being a victim to actually being an

agent of healing in the city I like to

look at that slapping the cheek as an

insult you know when somebody slays they

slap you in the face they’ve been

assaulted you and if you look at first

Peter chapter three verses I think it’s

789 it says that Jesus first of all in

1st Peter 2 it says Jesus was our

example when he was insulted he didn’t

insult back right

and Peter comes in in first Peter

chapter three and he says to you and I

when we’re insulted What did he say

bless back so when somebody insults you

you can be a victim and you can try to

get even or you can say I’m gonna be a

servant and I’m gonna bless you back so

if you look at Jesus whole sanger the

next one is if they tell you to walk

their Colt or horse or whatever was one

mile okay so back then a Roman could

look at a Jew and say you have to and by

Roman law walk my colt and it was

required there to walk a mile Wow but

Jesus was saying why do you want to be a

slave why not be a servant so the slave

has the perspective of they just stole

my time and my energy to walk this horse

one mile this is not fair the servant

says you can’t make me your slave

because I’m gonna walk your horse two

miles because I love you yeah so a

servant is empowered and a slave is

indentured there’s no there’s no choice

you have to do it so a slave has to yeah

a servant gets jets – a slave has been

stolen from a servant chooses to give a

slave does the minimum requirement the

servant does the maximum potential

so think about Rebecca this guy stranger

he’s got ten camels human do you know

how much a camel drinks after crossing

the desert I would imagine quite a bit

30 to 50 gallons he’s got ten gallons

now if you study that out in camels tent

thank you

yeah it’s okay if you study that out

there was two kinds of wells the wells

where the rope was let down and water

was drawn up or there were the wells

where you had to walk down about 25

steps to get to the water level and you

would draw the water and walk up the

stairs with the drawn water do you know

the Bible says and he can’t you don’t

see it right at the end so you see it

when the servant describes what Rebecca

did for him he said she went down and

drew the water now a typical water jug

would hold five gallons each of those

camels will drink let’s go minimum 30

gallons Wow do you understand how many

trips she made and this is a complete

stranger says give me a drink of water

she said yeah I’ll give your camel

she was a servant and what did it yield

she is in the lineage of Jesus Christ

she is the mother I mean the one of the

mother of Israel I mean amazing amazing

when you think about it yeah yeah no I

think I think there’s too many people

that have lost their inheritance and

their blessing because they lost their

perspective and you know what you can

regain your perspective and you know

John I hope you actually take a chance

and pray for the people to recover their

perspective and I actually feel like

this pause was a reset for perspective

and so what you’re talking about right

now and maybe some of you are like no

I’m tired of being a slave to my kids

and homeschooling and a slave to my

husband you can flip the narrative this

has been a chance for you to serve and

your husband can also have his chance to

serve and your kids can actually have a

really good coffee drink in the morning

it works wonders I’m learning this it

does it was it was always my dream but

ya know I feel I feel like perspective

is the shifting factor that we all need

if Jesus says that when you’re your eye

is darkness when the light that’s in you

is actual darkness you actually think

you’re filled with light and it’s really

darkness because it this culture will

tell you no that’s light that’s light if

somebody abuses you you know and slaps

you on one side you slap them right back

that’s fair well that is fair according

to our culture but according to the

kingdom that keeps you enslaved to

bitterness it keeps you in slave to

darkness and so we want to have a

different perspective and you know John

this has been something I’ve been

praying for this whole time that we’ve

had a pause I’m like god I want to go

out with a different perspective and

we’ve said it on there other earlier

podcast that Jesus went into the

wilderness filled with the Spirit came

out in the power thereof and there is

something about finding out the

faithfulness of God in your life that

shifts your perspective in this season

going into the next seas

so good and you know I’m I’m super

excited because you know just like I

didn’t know that strong was gonna be

part of this and be such a integral you

know needed teaching there’s another

course we have called the wilderness

yeah and this is where a lot of people

are right now and a wilderness is a

place that is void of distractions it is

a place that you could have the

perspective where there is nothing or

you can have a perspective that in the

wilderness there is nothing but God it

is that place where God reveals himself

yes absolutely I mean you think about it

God revealed himself to Joseph in the

dungeon in dreams he revealed himself to

David as shepherd when he had the line

in the bear if you look at John the

Baptist the Bible says the word of the

Lord came to him in the deserts so the

wilderness you know John the bat Jun the

Apostle was on the deserted island of

Patmos when he got the the revelation of

Jesus Christ

so you can look at this as oh shut down

I got kids running around the house I

can’t get out of this I don’t you know

where’s my next paycheck coming from or

you could rest in the fact that God said

I’d never allowed you to hunger when I

brought you into this wilderness I fed

you I fed you in the middle of a

wasteland God fed three million people

that’s why David says I’ve never never

seen the righteous forsaken nor their

seed begging for bread so you can sit

there and be worried about what the

unbelievers are worried about where’s my

food gonna come from where’s my clothes

gonna come from where’s my house payment

gonna come from or he said you can seek

first the kingdom and realize that it’s

in the wilderness in this time of

sabbatical that God reveals himself to

us in a fresh way and Lisa I I have been

living in five weeks of joy and do you

know why I believe I’ve been living in

this joy I have not had this much joy in

my life since I can remember it’s

because of perspective mm-hmm yeah you

know again I want to just highlight

we’re not saying that there aren’t

challenges in this season we’re not

saying that absolutely we’re not saying

that we are ready we’re not ready for

this season to be over because we are

we’re ready for we’re ready to come

out but but you don’t want to be so

focused on getting out of the wilderness

that you don’t get out of the wilderness

what you needed in this season and

that’s what the perspective were talking

to you about so John talk about this

because I think it’s a really incredible

opportunity for people to actually learn

purpose like we’re just touching on some

stuff so what is the purpose of a

wilderness and how can they dive a

little deeper into this well you know

our calling here at messenger

International is to teach to expound on

the I want to say the prophetic word of

God and what I mean by prophetic word of

God is what is God saying in this season

it just seems like Lisa the messages

that God has given you the messages God

has given me to add us on our team

members it always seems to be applicable

to where we’re at right now

I mean you wrote strong a year ago and

now here we are in the middle of needing

it and I wrote God where are you book a

year ago and here it just came out at

the end of last year and well at last

year and it’s so appropriate for right

now and then there’s a course that we

did called wilderness so we have all

these courses but the one hour we really

want to talk about is the wilderness

course because it will give you an

understanding of where you’re at and

when you understand what we’re going

through right now you behave in a way

that will position you to receive if I

would have been angry at that guy and I

would have had the wrong perspective I

would have called him up shooed him out

I don’t believe that couple would have

knocked on our front door so I would

have missed out on a blessing God had

intended for me because of wrong

behavior when you understand the time

that you’re in you know the behavior the

appropriate behavior and so in these

courses we’ve got now over 30 courses on

our all-access platform

and we at first we’re offering this

platform there was normally a monthly

fee for it we were offering it for a set

fee but then what we decided to do is

during this time give it for free for 30

days but then we got together and we had

a meeting our executive

leadership team and we thought that

people are gonna come out of the 30 days

and they’re still gonna need this and

they’re still gonna want it but the set

price is too much so we made an

executive decision and again it’s a

giving decision which we love to do

because god bless is giving we decided

that you can choose your contribution

every month so you can sit there and say

you know five dollars is a lot of money

for me but I’m gonna give five dollars a

month you may say thirty five dollars is

perfect for me I’m gonna give thirty

five dollars a month you may say $20 a

month you may say a hundred dollars a

month you get to choose why would they

want to give that much done because why

would they do that and and that is an

excellent question what many of you do

know and some of you don’t know is that

we have a passion to resource pastors

and persecuted nations and nations where

they can’t buy anything they can’t even

they don’t even have Christian

bookstores and so what we’ve done is

we’ve given in the last 10 years 30

million resources to pastors and leaders

in 227 nations in over a hundred

languages and these pastors are in Iran

Iraq Syria Afghanistan they’re in Russia

China they’re in Miramar they’re in Laos

even Laos one of the last five

communistic nations in the world they’re

in Vietnam we are the most published

authors in Vietnam secular or Christian

because we’ve given so much and the

government’s read everything we’ve given

Lisa so what you’re doing is you get the

benefit of the over 30 courses and 34

programs we have for your children you

get that benefit but more importantly

you become a part of a team that we

together because messenger international

we at messenger international never

could have given 30 million resources

but you become a part of a team that is

doing this and we we we have it yep to

do this year more than what we’ve done

in previous years so it’s not like we’re

backing off because of coronavirus we’re

actually ramping up to do more in the

next 12 months as far as what we give

overseas than we’ve ever done before so

you’re gonna be part of that team so

what that means is one day somebody from

the nation of Cambodia will come up to

you in heaven and say thank you for

disciple in me you go

never went to Cambodia they’ll say yes

you did you sent you became a part of a

team that sent these resources that my

household was saved our village ended up

having a revival and you’re gonna see

the fruit of people that you never met

before because you cared enough to be a

part of a team yeah I think it’s a great

deal yep

so all they have to do is go where where

they go all they have to do is they can

go to messenger slash are

slash all-access and some of you are

already in and you’re like wait I signed

up for the fixed rate and and it in its

I’m thinking that I’m gonna have to drop

off we don’t want to see you drop off so

you can actually adjust your monthly

contribution we want to see you be able

to engage with things that will disciple

you and cause you to grow so you’re

streaming and seeding and because this

is a new decision we don’t have the

software set up to change it in the

website so I think we have a way of

contacting us isn’t that right I think

we just talked about that this morning

yeah there so you can reach out to us

all of the information that they need

will be at the messenger

girl access they’ll be able to process

that and yeah we just want to see that

the Word of God continues to just grow

and flourish in your life and love that

you know I think everybody’s burnt out

on just being entertained this is not

days to just entertain this is days to

engage with the Word of God

engage and disciple yourself and so into

other people you know I love this has

been the scripture that’s been in my

heart that Isaac sowed in the season of

famine there is something beautiful of

sowing in a season of famine and he said

he reaped a hundredfold so we’re

believing that a hundredfold return for

your family for the presence of God for

healing for just growth in your life but

you know what John this has been

exciting and I love that all access is

doing this just right now so you you

don’t want to you don’t want to miss out

I’m gonna say it one more time yeah

messenger backslash all

access and that’s all they have to do

and just remember this proverbs 11

24:00 says that the world of the

generous gets larger and larger but the

world of the stingy gets smaller and

smaller we believe your world is getting

larger and larger and until next time

this has been conversations with John

and Lisa thanks for listening to

conversations with John and Lisa let us

know your thoughts by leaving a review

and be sure to subscribe and share these

episodes through iTunes you can also

connect with John and Lisa through

Facebook Instagram and Twitter

until next time