In this episode, John and Lisa discuss how to healthily navigate conflict with your spouse, family, and loved ones. In this time when so many are in close proximity with those they love, it’s only natural that conflicts bubble to the surface. Tune in to discover how to fight for your relationships when this happens, rather than fight the ones you love.


hey everyone welcome to today’s episode

of conversations with John and Lisa and

it’s just so great to be here with you

babe just a reminder for you guys we are

doing these podcasts on YouTube so you

can go to either John Bevere or Lisa

Bevere on YouTube and watch us I’ve got

a bright yellow shirt today so you might

need sunglasses anyway conversations is

part of an overall Network Lisa and

we’ve got the messenger podcast let’s

talk about it with sons and daughters

and we’re introducing a new one very

very soon that I’m very excited about

and today babe I just I’m really rushing

through the plumes because I want to get

to our conversation today we’re gonna

talk about how to healthily navigate

conflict with people that are close to

us in our lives

yes this has been a lot of practice on

that cough laughing okay so we have had

a lot of practice with that navigating

conflict in close proximity but a lot of

people haven’t had a lot of practice

with that and they are getting a crash

course they’re fast tracking close

proximity conflict and so we wanted to

actually talk about some of these

dynamics things that you and I have

learned the hard way we’re both Italians

and so no no no you’re Sicilian I’m

Italian Wow see this is you just make a

statement and already there’s like a

we’re gonna illustrate right yeah yeah

we are but we’ve had a lot of practice

of it our family does not like things

unresolved we are not afraid to directly

confront some stuff but but we’re

finding out there’s some people that

have been able to successfully avoid

conflict until they found themselves in

forest quarantine with family members so

we felt like it was important that we

give them some tools to be able to

navigate some of this Romans 12 verse 17

or 18 in the ESV

that is my choice of versions of the

Bible John likes the NLT it says repay

no one evil for evil but give thought to

do what is honorable in the sight of all

if possible so far as it depends on you

live peaceably with all you know John

there’s definitely been some times in

the middle of a conversation where if if

it depends on us we can make a choice to

either see it continue to go up up up

and escalate until it’s something out of

control or one of us can say man I’m

gonna I’m going to pull away and I’m

going to do something that is gonna stop

this from escalating like for example

not gonna lie there’s been times that

we’ve been in arguments well I didn’t

want to say something mean I wanted to

do something mean I wanted to want to

smack you but when I looked in the Holy

Spirit would say nope nope get up and go

hug him don’t throw something don’t hit


go hug him and immediately I watch

you’ve always been so gracious

everything just turned well you know I

agree but I want to take it back in the

father where you where you started this

whole conversation yeah so when we were

first married Lisa something happened

that left a longtime impression on both

of us there was another couple that we

thought were just how perfect how can

two people be so in love and so perfect

in treating each other so well they were

even intercessors they were intercessors

very involved in our group and we would

just feel like failures around him and I

remember after three years they went

through a very bitter divorce and what

happened was Lisa they they suppressed

all their feelings and this is what

people will do especially when you’re

working in separate jobs or the wife

stays home and the husband goes out

you can get one of those right you can

get through those couple hours at night

you get up usually early enough to where

you don’t see each other

so you just suppress but what happens

now when kovat 19 hits you’re now all of

a sudden together 24/7 and you and I and

and and I’m not this is said with the

utmost of humility you and I have had

probably the most delightful two months

being locked in together the reason is

we worked a lot together before this two

months and we had some real challenges

to where we even had to bring a third

party in a marriage counselor named chip

Judd who does one of our relationship

courses amazing he’s all he’s amazing

our board saw that we were we were not

getting along well and our board said

John and Lisa you need to talk to chip

and chip literally I mean our last I

would say our last three years have been

the most amazing and I wish we would

have met chip about 20 years ago but

chip started pointing things out and

both of us and we were just so strong

headed and bullheaded we refused to see

what the other person was really saying

we were feeling attacked and we might

have been attacked I mean we learned

early on you don’t attack the person’s

character you attack the problem but

still the way we attack the problem we

felt that was attacking the person yes

and you know chip really helps to

slapping helped us see that and and so I

want to bring these tools in there’s no

way we can do all of it because it took

two days but as think about what you

just read in as much well anyway though

that that couple ended up in the divorce

and you and I realized right now it

wasn’t healthy to suppress well and we

also got afraid we’re like wait a minute

if the intercessors shirts are getting


is there even hope for us well it

terrified us yeah and I think we

realized right then it wasn’t good to

just suppress things that really things

needed to be addressed but then what

happened was we started to attack each


and and let me give it an exam that

people understand it if you were doing

something that I thought was foolish the

stupid John would say you’re being a

fool well that right there is attacking

your character instead of me saying Lisa

I don’t think that was very wise

behavior now that I’m saying the same

thing but I’m not attacking your

character and I think that’s what

happened when people really get into a

conflict they get into what

psychologists call lizard brain and

that’s when they say just really stupid

things and those are things that really

really damaged long run until the

offense is forgiven the blood of Jesus

cleanses which sometimes takes a while

and get triggered you know some people

might say what you know so it triggers

something in them right where they self

protect and they attack so and this is

what chip helped us with right he helped

us discover where our trigger points

well and we already knew better yeah to

attack one another but what chip did so

well which makes me super excited that

he’s part of messenger courses is he

gave us tools to know how to have

constructive conversations yeah and now

what happened in the last three years is

we now fight for unity so in other words

I don’t want to suppress something but I

also don’t want to attack you and I

don’t want to create a blow-up so I’m

gonna avoid any triggers that I know I’m

gonna avoid anything that might still be

a tender spot for you and I’m going to

think how can I say this where I can

communicate what’s on my heart right now

without hitting a trigger without

attacking your character and these are

really important things to learn and I

just feel like saying this right now a

lot of you are almost feeling

discouraged and you feel like you’re

more distant you could look at it that

way or you could look at it as okay

problems have been exposed let’s solve

them because we are serving a god who

has answers for everything yeah so first

and foremost we want to just encourage

you don’t be afraid of the hard

conversations don’t continue to avoid

them they are not gonna go away they

need to be had and it is better that you

guys fight destructively than you

actually go silent cuz you and I have

actually we actually started to connect

with chip back in 2015 right so it’s

been it’s been a while five years and

and been able to actually get those

tools so don’t be afraid of the hard

conversations and get get yourself

connected with tools so we we’ve

mentioned messenger courses there’s also

amazing people that you can watch on

Instagram you and I love to watch dr.

Henry cloud he’s got these little tiny


but don’t avoid them don’t avoid them

and I think one of the best things Henry

said you and I watched this why we eaten

dinner the other night we watched his

tips and I love the way he put it and

I’m gonna have to say this in a way that

people that just listening can

understand people that are watching

you’ll see this but I’ve got both my

hands up at eye level right now

and dr. cloud said this so well he said

hey look nobody’s perfect we’re gonna

make mistakes so in other words I do

something stupid let’s say in the way

I’m conversing with you or addressing a

problem and I and I’m and I come down to

this level so now my left hand is down

to my chin and my right hand is up to my

eye he said the person who’s up here at

the eye level has a choice I can now

come down to that level and then we’re

going to just keep going step by step to

lower and lower levels to where we’re

now lizard brains and we’re doing

permanent damage or this person that’s

at eye level can say okay I can see that

right now we’ve gone down a level but

I’m not gonna go down there with them

I’m gonna stay up at this level that’s

the stronger Christian okay that’s the

person that’s stronger in their faith

and they stay at that level until this

person all of a sudden sees it and comes

up it may take an hour it may take a day

but if you stay at that level it’s

impossible to keep going down level

after level after level so thank you dr.

cloud for that bit of wisdom because

that’s so scriptural I love that you

said it may take an hour it may take a

day what are we doing right now we’re

saying have the hard conversations but

give yourself a break give yourself a

break sometimes John and I we realize we

need to step away so that we can regain

some perspective some composure here

from the Holy Spirit and then come back

to one another or get some counsel you

know we have amazing friends in our

lives that we can pick up the phone and

say hey have you guys ever navigated

this these are people that are doing

life in a similar pattern where we are

doing which is together close-quarters

having strong personalities both of them

so what we want to do is we want to be

people who don’t avoid the hard

conversations but we also give the mercy

that we want you know I know that I need

a lot of mercies and so I want to sow

mercy and you know I want to say one of

the things you have done so beautifully

is if we’re in this navigating something

and I go here I find it annoying

challenging and inspiring when you’re

like hey you know what that’s that’s

beneath you that’s beneath you what what

happens when John says that to me like

Lisa that bet

I’m sorry that doesn’t sound like that

doesn’t sound like you that doesn’t

sound like a woman who’s walked with God

for you know 30 some years that sounds

like a silly person right now what that

does is it says my husband sees me up

here and I’m acting less than but you

did the same for me and you do the same

for me very very well and if we do that

for each other you know when you think

about the scripture Lisa in in

ecclesiastical where talks about – being

better than one because why if one if

one falls down the other can pick him up

so your job even though you feel

personally attacked by your spouse

you’re not your spouse is frustrated

your spouse doesn’t like circumstances

maybe your spouse is just fed up with

being home for two months and maybe your

wife never thought she’d be

homeschooling your children yep yep


good and so what happens is because your

spouse is themself with you and

expressing their real frustration means

that they feel safe with you so in other

words think about it if it was the

next-door neighbor your spouse is gonna

ask act like the next-door neighbor

because she doesn’t feel safe or he

doesn’t feel safe with the next-door

neighbor but he feels safe or she feels

safe with you and let’s let’s remember

that let’s keep that in mind and give

each other that leeway to be able to get

frustrated but have somebody whose gun

is remained at that higher level and

pick them out of that frustration and so

I think if if you just take these simple

tools and you begin to work on this

right now I think you’ll see a dramatic

change yeah

and when our husbands hurt us and when

our friends hurt us and when our

children hurt us and when our wives hurt

us when people that we want to build

with feel like they have torn our world

apart you need to take it to the one who

has the power to heal you you know John

is an amazing companion he is an iron

that sharpens iron in my life but he is

not my healer and he is not my answer

and so when I hurt there’s only so much

John can do and a lot of times I’ve got

to go to God and say what is what is

really going on and I’m thinking

immediately of a situation in our

marriage where it was very early on

where I was in a pattern of

self-protecting by it wasn’t obvious

I just didn’t fully connect myself

protected because I didn’t fully connect

and I remember you saying to me Lisa I

feel like you’re always the first to

push away I feel like you’re always the

first to stop start patting me when I

was hugging you right yes yes I was like

okay we’re done we’re done we’re done

we’re done now this is enough and a part

of that was I was mom of young kids and

I was like I I just don’t got any more

to give but it also was a

self-protecting it and you said to me

you said Lisa I’m not your dad I’m not

gonna leave you I’m not going

to abandon you and and I don’t think I

even realized that I had gotten into a

pattern responding to you thinking that

all men leave all men disappoint all men

cheat and so I looked at you and I said

well I’m gay I know that but it actually

took me taking this to God and saying

it’s not just a conversation between

John and I God you’re my healer in this

situation tell me what is going on

because you can go to the best

counselors and we think it’s great tell

you for you to have therapists and

counselors but at the end of the day you

can identify the problem you still have

to bring it to the healer you still have

to bring it to the one who is the answer

you still have to bring it to the cross

yes and see it through God’s mercy you

know I made a statement to you and I

remember I was early 40s you were late

30s and I said to you and I want the

people to hear this I said look I’m not

gonna leave you is it gonna is it gonna

take till we’re seventy years old for

you to realize I’m not going to do what

your dad did and which is just did which

was then yeah 30 years away and and I

said we can do that and I’ll stay with

you til were 70 but we’re gonna miss a

lot of fun and I want to say that to you

all of you that are listening

don’t miss the fun you can have now in

this season because of the fears of

something that’s never gonna happen in

your relationships okay so if it happens

you know what you have Jesus and Jesus

is better than anyone and he is the one

that can heal any broken heart but you

know I never forget reading something in

a book one day where it said if you

truly truly love that means you take the

risk of being hurt when you think about

it God just loved Adam and Eve so much

Lisa but he took the risk he knew what

they would do he even knew they would do

but he still said I’m going to choose to

love you and if you think about with all

of us he knows we’re gonna make mistakes

he knows the end from the beginning but

he still chooses to love us so if you

take that approach with your spouse I’ll

tell you

conflicts will be resolved and you’ll

have a whole lot more fun which you

should well I just want to say everyone

thanks for tuning in and remember to


review and also subscribe to the podcast

it really helps get the message out

further if it’s helping you you want to

see it help others I want to read what

Dani said she wrote a review she said

John and Lisa thank you so much for your

honesty humor that’s mostly on Lisa’s

part humility passion and love I have

been devouring your podcasts listening

to you guys has been such a healing

learning and uplifting experience and my

spirit resonates with the way you love

and express and teach the Word of God

Danny that means so much to us I want to

say this to all of you and I want to say

this from the depths of my heart we have

spent hours and hours and hours

preparing a platform to help disciple

you and help you with some of life’s

tough conflicts that we get into or

challenges that we face and I I just

want to share with all of you the

importance of studying the Word of God

that has systematically put together by

somebody who’s walked through it when

Lisa and I were young couples there were

several ministers that had gone through

some real challenges in life and God

gave them a platform to teach on the

areas that they struggled in the most I

remember Lisa and ice diligently

listening back then it was cassette

tapes to their cassette tape series and

what it did is it kept us from having to

walk through the same challenges that

they did now Lisa and I sense have had

other challenges we’ve had to walk

through and if you look at our messenger

courses you’ll find a lot of them are

these challenges such as having trouble

forgiving people that’s the bait of

Satan raising four men that’s the moms

of men if you look at promiscuity and

the hurt that it brings Lisa experienced

that and we both really did because I

was bound to pornography and I’ve got

the porn free course but we share how

God not only delivered us but brought

healing into our lives so we have all

these courses and you know what’s

amazing you can get these courses for

the contribution that you choose we used

to charge a monthly subscription there’s

over 30 courses so this is not just 30

courses this is 60 combined years of

life hard

crying out to God a ministry that is put

into these over 30 courses and they’re

very simple they’re like 15 minutes each

there’s like 10 per course and what you

can do is subscribe and you choose

whatever you want to give a month

instead of the set fee and that way you

become a part of our team that helps us

get these messages to pastors and

leaders all over the world who can’t

afford anything so if you want to join

this all access platform go to messenger

podcasts dot-com backslash all-access

I’m gonna say that one more time

messenger backslash

all-access or if you want to go even

easier you can go to messenger courses

dot-com but I think you get a you’ll get

there both ways and I just want to

encourage you to do it because I really

believe will build your life we’re

getting so many comments we’ve had

probably around 3,000 people join the

platform in the last month and we are

getting so many comments of people

saying their lives are being totally

revolutionized they are being

transformed their life is just literally

becoming more fruitful so go to it and

sign up today you know and I just want

to add in addition to courses for

parents we actually have 34 episodes for

children so you’re thinking I can’t

watch a course right now well you can

put your kids on a device in one room

and you can go on a device in another

room and that way your family can learn

together so we’re super excited about it

we have things for kids we have things

for youth we have the sons and daughters

they have courses on there we have

things for marriage we have things for

Saints all sorts of exciting things that

go to messenger courses and check it out

until next time this has been

conversations with John and Lisa

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