In a culture that thrives on contention and conflict, is it truly possible to be unoffendable?
[Music]
well welcome to today’s conversations
with john and lisa i’m just happy
and this is my husband john and this is
exciting because this is a topic that
you and i are super excited about and a
lot of people may not know this but this
is actually a topic that if we had not
seen victory in it
i don’t even know if we’d be in the
ministry or if we were in the ministry
we definitely wouldn’t be effective so
we’re going to dive into it if you’re
like what what could have been we’re
going to be talking about how to be and
stay
unoffendable
isn’t that going to be good i love that
topic so kudos to our producer yeah and
we would love to have you guys subscribe
to the show we love hearing your
suggestions we love it when you rate the
show because that way it gets it out
there further i want to read just one
person who actually said yes lisa i’ll
do that for you it says rebecca she said
i love this podcast i’m thankful for
this encouraging biblical perspective on
living the christian life thanks rebecca
boy it’s good to hear from you and you
know lisa this is such an important
conversation and i’ve never seen such a
highly
charged atmosphere in the sense that at
any moment we could have massive chaos
in our cities even so much anywhere in
our country not just our cities that
people are just on edge you know i
remember as a young man growing up if
you had two people sit down and they
disagreed they just look at each other
and say we’re just going to agree to
disagree and we’re going to keep being
friends and being relationship well
today it’s pretty much gotten to the
place people are so offended cut off
that
it’s it’s it’s a cancel culture it’s a
cut off culture so we have got to combat
this and you know lisa it really brings
to mind the words of jesus that he said
they will know that you’re my disciples
by your loved one for another and so
really the foundation of what we’re
discussing today is the genuine love of
god okay so i i love this ideology but
is it actually possible to be
unoffendable are we asking people to be
something that maybe it’s impossible to
be in this time in this culture and this
highly charged
tense atmosphere the answer to that
question is absolutely yes okay you can
you’re gonna take one
offendable okay it’s gonna take work um
no i i love i love it yes it does it
does it absolutely does and we’ll get
into that in a minute but psalm 119 165
says great peace have them that love
your word
and nothing
can offend them
whenever i read that scripture i think
of the wwf wrestler used to live next
door to us you know how i always thought
it was all fake and it was phony
until i met him and i have never seen
such a humongous massive guy i remember
playing basketball with him i would full
speed drive to the basket he would step
in front of me he wouldn’t budge and i
would go flying back about five feet
and one day he said to me he said john
come watch my my wrestling videos and i
said sure i thought it was all fake and
i remember them busting a guitar over
his head they busted a chair over his
back lisa
there was a a 400 pound sumo wrestler
that went against him he jumped off the
ropes on on top of him and he jumped up
as if nothing happened and i thought
most human beings would be in traction
for six weeks in a hospital if somebody
that large jumped from six feet high on
top of somebody
and when i think of this i think i mean
he was uninjurable and that’s how you
can become spiritually
and this is something that i personally
went through as you you and i both know
i was deeply deeply wounded offended by
somebody who was close to and felt
betrayed by a father figure yes
and i couldn’t get out of it lisa you
know that i i went months and i prayed
and prayed and prayed i cried out to god
i said i forgive him by faith i’ve
forgiven my faith
i fasted i prayed i asked people to pray
for me i counseled people and still i
got worse and worse and to the point one
day i’ll never forget as long as i live
you looked at me and said john what’s
wrong because you were weeping in
worship and it was an atmosphere of
worship and i felt so cold and so
i want to say where we were so maybe
some people well
we were in a honda civic with two kids
listening to worship music and i’m
weeping and crying and you’re driving
and i was like why are you not crying
what’s wrong don’t you feel the presence
of god i remember my answer to you was
i’m meditating right now you know you’re
worshiping i’m meditating and you know
lisa it’s so funny
i was being a stupid you know person
right at that moment well you didn’t
know how to get free i didn’t know i
didn’t i didn’t even know i was i was
that wounded i mean i remember the day
god showed me the reason
you keep being tormented
is because you’ve been wounded and and
in this particular day i i read a verse
lisa
in acts it’s acts uh
24 16 i believe where paul said and here
and do i exercise
to always keep myself free from offense
with god and men and i remember that day
the word exercise leapt off the page and
the holy spirit spoke to me he said
that’s what you need to do you need to
exercise
and and and when you know being an
athlete growing up i mean i played
played sports all my life i knew that if
you get injured
you have to rehabilitate right at once
it heals let’s say your knee or
something heals you have to go through
physical therapy and um
i realized
that i was wounded
and god spoke to me and he said you know
wounds don’t heal unless you treat them
correctly yeah they don’t heal overnight
it’s not like it’s not like a little
little touch off right it’s it’s a and
deep thing and the holy spirit said
that’s what you need to do you need to
exercise and i’m like
i i’ll never forget this i said how do i
exercise yeah how do you exercise
spiritually and all i heard in my heart
was go read matthew chapter five so i go
over to matthew five and you know i
start with verse one and it takes me 45
verses to figure out what god’s saying
to me because i think it’s 40 verse 44
or 45 jesus said pray for those who
mistreat you
and i looked up another version and said
pray for those who abuse you and the
holy spirit arrested me when i read pray
for those who mistreat you he said
that’s how you exercise you pray for him
and i remember immediately i got it from
the table and i said
god bless him in jesus name
and i remember the next day i said oh by
the way bless him in jesus name and by
the next day lisa i was like if you can
lord bless him
and you know that’s like rehabilitating
with a quarter on your foot
i mean
there was no weight and there was no
healing coming and
i prayed this way
very
lethargically
unpassionately it was a duty it was out
of duty okay i did that for about four
or five weeks
and i remember i was on a three-day fast
four or five weeks later and the holy
spirit said read someone read psalm 35.
so go over to psalm 35
and i started reading and none of it
made sense i mean that’s so frustrating
when god says go somewhere in your
spirit and you go there and it’s like
not making any sense but boy i got to i
think it was the 11th verse and david
said fierce witnesses have risen up
against me they’ve asked me things i do
not know they’ve rewarded me evil for
good and i went i remember going that’s
me i did this man good all these years
and he has rewarded me evil for it and
i’m thinking the next verse you know
god’s gonna say break their jaws bust
their teeth throw them in the pit you
know because i’m a mess i’m a mess lisa
and and that’s that’s the thing i didn’t
know i was a mess right
and and that’s what i find with most
people that are offended they don’t know
they’re offended so i remember
you know i
i i’m thinking the next verse is going
to be judgment right and the next verse
david says but as for me
when they were sick i prayed for them
like my mother or my brother
and i went
whoa
and the holy spirit said to me pray
whatever you want in your life for that
man
now that gave me direction
now i started thinking of all things i
wanted from god i said so i started
praying god i pray that he would
experience your presence i pray that you
would bless his family i pray that you
would bring support for his ministry and
start praying all the things that i
wanted for him
and lease
i
it was so painful i’m thinking how can i
ask you god to give him this you know my
my soul is my mind’s going screaming how
can you ask god to give him this when he
has done this and not only to me but to
others right and yet i keep doing it and
and this is the part i want to make
really clear
a lot of people feel like you pray what
feels good that’s so wrong you pray
truth
and i’m going to give you an example
when if anybody that’s listening to us
has ever gone through physical therapy i
have once with my shoulder i have as
well yes okay i wanted to hit it hit the
person who was the physical therapist
and it was a girl
okay that’s how much pain she was
putting me in
and it is painful and and that’s the
thing that
we have to realize so let me just make
some uh
just ask you this question is this just
for people in ministry
no okay so is this something that could
work for
any area of life
absolutely you know lisa we just at
messenger international released the
crash okay just a few weeks ago
and um
if you have not seen this video
everybody you’ve got to go to messenger
x and watch this video the crash now
lisa very moving i i watched it being
produced i watched a bit by bit and i
hadn’t watched it in a couple months and
i sat down this morning and i thought
i’m going to just watch it i want to see
what everybody else is saying because
there’s been a lot of great reviews on
this movie this short movie
lisa i cried like a baby and i i got on
my phone and i texted all the actors the
director the producer don’t cry yeah and
i said look i’m wiping the tears from my
eyes right now i can’t thank you enough
tell you how honored i am to be a part
of your team
you know
and it was our team members right and
and and i said um
you know that crash illustrates a true
story
and it’s about a man
who had his beautiful i think it was
like 12 year old girl killed by a drunk
driver
and
he ended up going to the hospital room
the father
and ended up the guy was angry he was
mad at him and i’m not going to tell you
the rest of the story but it’s a true
story that this father forgave him and
became friends with them for the rest of
their lives based on a true story that’s
amazing yeah and and so yes it can
happen outside of ministry okay so you
talked about uh we’re living in a highly
charged world and luke 17 1 jesus is
talking he said it is impossible that no
offenses should come so
if it’s impossible for no offenses to
come then how is it uh possible that for
we there’s constantly there’s onslaught
of offenses you exercise you’re talking
about one person how do i actually
create a posture where i am
hard to offend
i believe it’s through spending time in
the word and spending time in prayer
because what happens is you you get
god’s heart and and let’s let’s talk
let’s take it right back all right we
are completely offendable to god
i mean we’re so offendable that our just
reward is to burn in a lake of fire
forever and ever and ever now god’s not
unjust
so what we justly deserve for how we
offended our creator is to burn a lake
of fire where worms never die
i mean that’s
unimaginable that’s what we deserve so
that is our just reward for what we did
now if we pray what happens is we get
close to the holy spirit and what
happens is the heart of god comes into
us right and god chose to forgive us
like i you and i have met people in our
years of ministry that said i’ll forgive
them
when they apologize now what if jesus
would have waited for us to say i’m
sorry before he forgave us because when
he hung on the cross lisa and he said
father forgive them they don’t know what
they’re doing he wasn’t just talking
about the soldiers in the sanhedrin
right you started the next generation
the next generation the next generation
right down to you and me because our
sins put him on that cross so he forgave
us from the cross before we ever said
i’m sorry correct so
what
the bible doesn’t suggest the bible
commands us
now god never gives us a command in the
new testament he doesn’t give us the
power to to not do it commands us to
forgive one another as christ for god’s
sake forgave us
okay
so that means that if you look at the
forgiveness jesus had on that cross
forgiving you and i
of an offense that deserved to burn in
the lake of fire forever because i don’t
know anybody that’s done anything to
anybody
that would deserve a lake of fire
forever
that shows you how great our sin our
offensive behavior was to god i mean
that’s mind-blowing when you think about
it so the very worst thing the human
being can do to somebody else is nothing
compared to what we did to god and jesus
illustrates that in that parable in
matthew 18. and guys if you’re not ready
go over to matthew 18
the ten thousand talents
is a third of a year salary
but if you look at what the king forgave
that servant of he forgave him of a ten
unpaid billion dollar debt
and and so what we did to god is like 10
billion dollars what the very worst
thing we can do to one another is like a
third of a year salary compared to it so
god chose to forgive us that means we’ve
got that forgiveness in our heart and
that’s why we when we opened up this
program babe
i said this is how people are going to
know
that we’re truly followers of jesus
because this offense is going to get
worse and worse and worse in our society
it’s not going to get better if you’re
looking for it to get better the only
thing that’s going to make it better is
a genuine awakening a move of god like
wales had in 1904 five and six okay
where the whole nation
stopped having crime because of the move
of god and i’m believing for that still
but if that doesn’t if that doesn’t
happen this is going to get worse yeah
and john what if somebody that’s really
close to you betrays you somebody maybe
it’s a spouse or maybe it’s a parent or
maybe it’s a trusted friend what about
that because that feels not just like an
offensive like maybe something you see
on tv is offensive or maybe something
that you’ve heard in the news is
offensive but we’re talking about a
person that you’re close to when they
betray you or offend you how do you
navigate that
so
that’s uh you want to walk through this
together or you want okay all right so i
want you to i’m trying the first thing
you do is you’ve got to do what i said
is exercise so when i was exercising
praying for that man every day i got
more and more passionate every single
day until one day i just screamed his
name out i was out in a remote place and
i said i love you and i remember when i
did it was the first time i meant i love
you talking about him for well
several months
and i remember that morning i thought
everything’s good
and i remember i saw him a few weeks
later and i just another little mirror
in my and you picked up on it and you
sat me down on the couch lisa and you
said john i think you need to go to him
and i jumped i remember jumping up off
the couch babe and i said oh no no no no
i don’t need to go to him i have
exercise i prayed for him i’m moving on
everything’s great and i went out and
prayed and i said lord do i need to go
to him lord said yes he didn’t he
it was just so clear yes
and i remember that was the day that
jesus taught me
the reason we go to our brother is for
the purpose of reconciliation right
because god loves that’s right always
our hope that’s always our hope may not
have commanded to forgive but you know
like i’ve got some friends walking
through some hard things right now and
you know they have chosen to take the
brave route of forgiving but in some
circumstances it’s on it would be
unhealthy if they reconciled meaning
okay everything’s great go back so
forgiveness is something we’re commanded
to do reconciliation is based on that
person’s repentance right because we
were not reconciled to god until we
repented correct so that you you said
that so haphazardly no i want you to
repeat that yeah we weren’t because
everybody needs to get that so i was
forgiven from the cross so god didn’t
open his heart to us god did not open
and show us this that the the secrets of
his heart until we repented then we were
reconciled so even though we were
forgiven we weren’t reconciled and that
that’s where people miss it because at
least i get i get so frustrated you and
i both get frustrated
seeing maybe someone go back to it’s
very abusive situation and they keep
going back because they feel like well i
i if i forgive you i have to forgive you
you can forgive and keep a healthy
distance i mean david didn’t stay in the
palace and become a wall hanging when
two spears were thrown at him right
right right so you what i want is um
again it’s not unusual that the people
that are close to us can hurt us the
most and what i want is this idea of
going to the purpose to the to the
person for the purpose of reconciliation
and what did you do you created an
atmosphere so the bible says that the
goodness of god the kindness of god yes
led us to repentance yes so you
suggested
it wasn’t my idea this was your idea
i have i have the holy spirit and i have
lisa and i’m so thankful for both of
them but you suggested i give him a
really and i remember the gift we got
him was a lot of money for us oh my
goodness it was it was and i brought it
to him and i remember i’m creating an
atmosphere of goodness he opened it up
and he was like blown away and he he’s
like he didn’t know what to say and i
opened it up by saying i’ve been very
critical and judgmental of you and he’s
like no no no you haven’t i said oh yes
i have and you know what that did that
kindness had opened him up and the
humility on your part had opened him up
it opened him up and we’re still friends
to this day yeah and that was over 30
years ago so i just want every person
out there that is happening to listen to
this this is one of my favorite books of
john has this whole principle of walking
us through this place of forgiveness the
crash is just this beautiful story of
forgiveness but the bait of satan book
is my absolute favorite book of my
husbands and it is about how to escape
the trap of offense and i love this
subtle our response to an offense is
what determines our future that offense
doesn’t determine our future our
response to that offense
determines our future and so john they
can get
connected with the beta satan book on
the app right yeah i mean
yeah i mean tell me is aren’t you
getting ready to do a study
so the beta satan studies on the app
also the beta book club aren’t you audio
yeah i’m going to do a book club yeah
thanks honey um i’m going to do a book
i’m going to do a group because we’re
emphasizing groups right now on
uh messenger x because we believe
discipleship happens in groups not in
big massive auditoriums where there’s 5
000 people
and so i decided hey let’s do a group on
the beta state now
my team was kind of laughing because
they said well you may have 2 000 people
in your group and i said that’s okay
and i don’t know how they’re going to
navigate that but i am really excited
because lisa you know i mean i wrote the
beta satan 27 years ago but i didn’t
realize how absolutely relevant it would
be and necessary for today and you know
it’s amazing that book has sold the
publisher has sold i think they’re
pushing close to two million copies when
you look at all the over 100 languages
that it’s being sold and then we as a
ministry we’ve given away i think
hundreds of thousands of them to pastors
and leaders overseas and gosh at least i
hear it from individuals i hear from
families i hear from pastors all the
time how it has brought such healing in
areas that people are about ready to
give up in so people are ready to quit
marriages people are ready the churches
are ready to split and we just watch god
use it it’s a tool it’s it’s it’s it’s a
word from god i realize that it’s his
message to his church because of what
jesus predicted would happen in the last
days right before his second coming he
told the disciples the majority of the
people would be offended
wow and that feels like where we are
today listen i want to thank you guys
for tuning in and please remember to
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copy of the beta satan book or go even
deeper on the journey on becoming
unoffendable you can listen to it in
your car messenger x on audiobook and
you can have the book book grab a copy
on amazon barnes and nobles or wherever
books are sold and if you have not yet
watched the
movie that we were talking about the
short film the crash
just grab a hold of you and go on to
messenger x we want to see you share
that with all sorts of people john you
know when the premiere was so many
people loved it so until next time this
has been conversations with john and
lisa bevere
thanks for listening to conversations
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