In a culture that thrives on contention and conflict, is it truly possible to be unoffendable?


well welcome to today’s conversations

with john and lisa i’m just happy

and this is my husband john and this is

exciting because this is a topic that

you and i are super excited about and a

lot of people may not know this but this

is actually a topic that if we had not

seen victory in it

i don’t even know if we’d be in the

ministry or if we were in the ministry

we definitely wouldn’t be effective so

we’re going to dive into it if you’re

like what what could have been we’re

going to be talking about how to be and



isn’t that going to be good i love that

topic so kudos to our producer yeah and

we would love to have you guys subscribe

to the show we love hearing your

suggestions we love it when you rate the

show because that way it gets it out

there further i want to read just one

person who actually said yes lisa i’ll

do that for you it says rebecca she said

i love this podcast i’m thankful for

this encouraging biblical perspective on

living the christian life thanks rebecca

boy it’s good to hear from you and you

know lisa this is such an important

conversation and i’ve never seen such a


charged atmosphere in the sense that at

any moment we could have massive chaos

in our cities even so much anywhere in

our country not just our cities that

people are just on edge you know i

remember as a young man growing up if

you had two people sit down and they

disagreed they just look at each other

and say we’re just going to agree to

disagree and we’re going to keep being

friends and being relationship well

today it’s pretty much gotten to the

place people are so offended cut off


it’s it’s it’s a cancel culture it’s a

cut off culture so we have got to combat

this and you know lisa it really brings

to mind the words of jesus that he said

they will know that you’re my disciples

by your loved one for another and so

really the foundation of what we’re

discussing today is the genuine love of

god okay so i i love this ideology but

is it actually possible to be

unoffendable are we asking people to be

something that maybe it’s impossible to

be in this time in this culture and this

highly charged

tense atmosphere the answer to that

question is absolutely yes okay you can

you’re gonna take one

offendable okay it’s gonna take work um

no i i love i love it yes it does it

does it absolutely does and we’ll get

into that in a minute but psalm 119 165

says great peace have them that love

your word

and nothing

can offend them

whenever i read that scripture i think

of the wwf wrestler used to live next

door to us you know how i always thought

it was all fake and it was phony

until i met him and i have never seen

such a humongous massive guy i remember

playing basketball with him i would full

speed drive to the basket he would step

in front of me he wouldn’t budge and i

would go flying back about five feet

and one day he said to me he said john

come watch my my wrestling videos and i

said sure i thought it was all fake and

i remember them busting a guitar over

his head they busted a chair over his

back lisa

there was a a 400 pound sumo wrestler

that went against him he jumped off the

ropes on on top of him and he jumped up

as if nothing happened and i thought

most human beings would be in traction

for six weeks in a hospital if somebody

that large jumped from six feet high on

top of somebody

and when i think of this i think i mean

he was uninjurable and that’s how you

can become spiritually

and this is something that i personally

went through as you you and i both know

i was deeply deeply wounded offended by

somebody who was close to and felt

betrayed by a father figure yes

and i couldn’t get out of it lisa you

know that i i went months and i prayed

and prayed and prayed i cried out to god

i said i forgive him by faith i’ve

forgiven my faith

i fasted i prayed i asked people to pray

for me i counseled people and still i

got worse and worse and to the point one

day i’ll never forget as long as i live

you looked at me and said john what’s

wrong because you were weeping in

worship and it was an atmosphere of

worship and i felt so cold and so

i want to say where we were so maybe

some people well

we were in a honda civic with two kids

listening to worship music and i’m

weeping and crying and you’re driving

and i was like why are you not crying

what’s wrong don’t you feel the presence

of god i remember my answer to you was

i’m meditating right now you know you’re

worshiping i’m meditating and you know

lisa it’s so funny

i was being a stupid you know person

right at that moment well you didn’t

know how to get free i didn’t know i

didn’t i didn’t even know i was i was

that wounded i mean i remember the day

god showed me the reason

you keep being tormented

is because you’ve been wounded and and

in this particular day i i read a verse


in acts it’s acts uh

24 16 i believe where paul said and here

and do i exercise

to always keep myself free from offense

with god and men and i remember that day

the word exercise leapt off the page and

the holy spirit spoke to me he said

that’s what you need to do you need to


and and and when you know being an

athlete growing up i mean i played

played sports all my life i knew that if

you get injured

you have to rehabilitate right at once

it heals let’s say your knee or

something heals you have to go through

physical therapy and um

i realized

that i was wounded

and god spoke to me and he said you know

wounds don’t heal unless you treat them

correctly yeah they don’t heal overnight

it’s not like it’s not like a little

little touch off right it’s it’s a and

deep thing and the holy spirit said

that’s what you need to do you need to

exercise and i’m like

i i’ll never forget this i said how do i

exercise yeah how do you exercise

spiritually and all i heard in my heart

was go read matthew chapter five so i go

over to matthew five and you know i

start with verse one and it takes me 45

verses to figure out what god’s saying

to me because i think it’s 40 verse 44

or 45 jesus said pray for those who

mistreat you

and i looked up another version and said

pray for those who abuse you and the

holy spirit arrested me when i read pray

for those who mistreat you he said

that’s how you exercise you pray for him

and i remember immediately i got it from

the table and i said

god bless him in jesus name

and i remember the next day i said oh by

the way bless him in jesus name and by

the next day lisa i was like if you can

lord bless him

and you know that’s like rehabilitating

with a quarter on your foot

i mean

there was no weight and there was no

healing coming and

i prayed this way



unpassionately it was a duty it was out

of duty okay i did that for about four

or five weeks

and i remember i was on a three-day fast

four or five weeks later and the holy

spirit said read someone read psalm 35.

so go over to psalm 35

and i started reading and none of it

made sense i mean that’s so frustrating

when god says go somewhere in your

spirit and you go there and it’s like

not making any sense but boy i got to i

think it was the 11th verse and david

said fierce witnesses have risen up

against me they’ve asked me things i do

not know they’ve rewarded me evil for

good and i went i remember going that’s

me i did this man good all these years

and he has rewarded me evil for it and

i’m thinking the next verse you know

god’s gonna say break their jaws bust

their teeth throw them in the pit you

know because i’m a mess i’m a mess lisa

and and that’s that’s the thing i didn’t

know i was a mess right

and and that’s what i find with most

people that are offended they don’t know

they’re offended so i remember

you know i

i i’m thinking the next verse is going

to be judgment right and the next verse

david says but as for me

when they were sick i prayed for them

like my mother or my brother

and i went


and the holy spirit said to me pray

whatever you want in your life for that


now that gave me direction

now i started thinking of all things i

wanted from god i said so i started

praying god i pray that he would

experience your presence i pray that you

would bless his family i pray that you

would bring support for his ministry and

start praying all the things that i

wanted for him

and lease


it was so painful i’m thinking how can i

ask you god to give him this you know my

my soul is my mind’s going screaming how

can you ask god to give him this when he

has done this and not only to me but to

others right and yet i keep doing it and

and this is the part i want to make

really clear

a lot of people feel like you pray what

feels good that’s so wrong you pray


and i’m going to give you an example

when if anybody that’s listening to us

has ever gone through physical therapy i

have once with my shoulder i have as

well yes okay i wanted to hit it hit the

person who was the physical therapist

and it was a girl

okay that’s how much pain she was

putting me in

and it is painful and and that’s the

thing that

we have to realize so let me just make

some uh

just ask you this question is this just

for people in ministry

no okay so is this something that could

work for

any area of life

absolutely you know lisa we just at

messenger international released the

crash okay just a few weeks ago

and um

if you have not seen this video

everybody you’ve got to go to messenger

x and watch this video the crash now

lisa very moving i i watched it being

produced i watched a bit by bit and i

hadn’t watched it in a couple months and

i sat down this morning and i thought

i’m going to just watch it i want to see

what everybody else is saying because

there’s been a lot of great reviews on

this movie this short movie

lisa i cried like a baby and i i got on

my phone and i texted all the actors the

director the producer don’t cry yeah and

i said look i’m wiping the tears from my

eyes right now i can’t thank you enough

tell you how honored i am to be a part

of your team

you know

and it was our team members right and

and and i said um

you know that crash illustrates a true


and it’s about a man

who had his beautiful i think it was

like 12 year old girl killed by a drunk



he ended up going to the hospital room

the father

and ended up the guy was angry he was

mad at him and i’m not going to tell you

the rest of the story but it’s a true

story that this father forgave him and

became friends with them for the rest of

their lives based on a true story that’s

amazing yeah and and so yes it can

happen outside of ministry okay so you

talked about uh we’re living in a highly

charged world and luke 17 1 jesus is

talking he said it is impossible that no

offenses should come so

if it’s impossible for no offenses to

come then how is it uh possible that for

we there’s constantly there’s onslaught

of offenses you exercise you’re talking

about one person how do i actually

create a posture where i am

hard to offend

i believe it’s through spending time in

the word and spending time in prayer

because what happens is you you get

god’s heart and and let’s let’s talk

let’s take it right back all right we

are completely offendable to god

i mean we’re so offendable that our just

reward is to burn in a lake of fire

forever and ever and ever now god’s not


so what we justly deserve for how we

offended our creator is to burn a lake

of fire where worms never die

i mean that’s

unimaginable that’s what we deserve so

that is our just reward for what we did

now if we pray what happens is we get

close to the holy spirit and what

happens is the heart of god comes into

us right and god chose to forgive us

like i you and i have met people in our

years of ministry that said i’ll forgive


when they apologize now what if jesus

would have waited for us to say i’m

sorry before he forgave us because when

he hung on the cross lisa and he said

father forgive them they don’t know what

they’re doing he wasn’t just talking

about the soldiers in the sanhedrin

right you started the next generation

the next generation the next generation

right down to you and me because our

sins put him on that cross so he forgave

us from the cross before we ever said

i’m sorry correct so


the bible doesn’t suggest the bible

commands us

now god never gives us a command in the

new testament he doesn’t give us the

power to to not do it commands us to

forgive one another as christ for god’s

sake forgave us


so that means that if you look at the

forgiveness jesus had on that cross

forgiving you and i

of an offense that deserved to burn in

the lake of fire forever because i don’t

know anybody that’s done anything to


that would deserve a lake of fire


that shows you how great our sin our

offensive behavior was to god i mean

that’s mind-blowing when you think about

it so the very worst thing the human

being can do to somebody else is nothing

compared to what we did to god and jesus

illustrates that in that parable in

matthew 18. and guys if you’re not ready

go over to matthew 18

the ten thousand talents

is a third of a year salary

but if you look at what the king forgave

that servant of he forgave him of a ten

unpaid billion dollar debt

and and so what we did to god is like 10

billion dollars what the very worst

thing we can do to one another is like a

third of a year salary compared to it so

god chose to forgive us that means we’ve

got that forgiveness in our heart and

that’s why we when we opened up this

program babe

i said this is how people are going to


that we’re truly followers of jesus

because this offense is going to get

worse and worse and worse in our society

it’s not going to get better if you’re

looking for it to get better the only

thing that’s going to make it better is

a genuine awakening a move of god like

wales had in 1904 five and six okay

where the whole nation

stopped having crime because of the move

of god and i’m believing for that still

but if that doesn’t if that doesn’t

happen this is going to get worse yeah

and john what if somebody that’s really

close to you betrays you somebody maybe

it’s a spouse or maybe it’s a parent or

maybe it’s a trusted friend what about

that because that feels not just like an

offensive like maybe something you see

on tv is offensive or maybe something

that you’ve heard in the news is

offensive but we’re talking about a

person that you’re close to when they

betray you or offend you how do you

navigate that


that’s uh you want to walk through this

together or you want okay all right so i

want you to i’m trying the first thing

you do is you’ve got to do what i said

is exercise so when i was exercising

praying for that man every day i got

more and more passionate every single

day until one day i just screamed his

name out i was out in a remote place and

i said i love you and i remember when i

did it was the first time i meant i love

you talking about him for well

several months

and i remember that morning i thought

everything’s good

and i remember i saw him a few weeks

later and i just another little mirror

in my and you picked up on it and you

sat me down on the couch lisa and you

said john i think you need to go to him

and i jumped i remember jumping up off

the couch babe and i said oh no no no no

i don’t need to go to him i have

exercise i prayed for him i’m moving on

everything’s great and i went out and

prayed and i said lord do i need to go

to him lord said yes he didn’t he

it was just so clear yes

and i remember that was the day that

jesus taught me

the reason we go to our brother is for

the purpose of reconciliation right

because god loves that’s right always

our hope that’s always our hope may not

have commanded to forgive but you know

like i’ve got some friends walking

through some hard things right now and

you know they have chosen to take the

brave route of forgiving but in some

circumstances it’s on it would be

unhealthy if they reconciled meaning

okay everything’s great go back so

forgiveness is something we’re commanded

to do reconciliation is based on that

person’s repentance right because we

were not reconciled to god until we

repented correct so that you you said

that so haphazardly no i want you to

repeat that yeah we weren’t because

everybody needs to get that so i was

forgiven from the cross so god didn’t

open his heart to us god did not open

and show us this that the the secrets of

his heart until we repented then we were

reconciled so even though we were

forgiven we weren’t reconciled and that

that’s where people miss it because at

least i get i get so frustrated you and

i both get frustrated

seeing maybe someone go back to it’s

very abusive situation and they keep

going back because they feel like well i

i if i forgive you i have to forgive you

you can forgive and keep a healthy

distance i mean david didn’t stay in the

palace and become a wall hanging when

two spears were thrown at him right

right right so you what i want is um

again it’s not unusual that the people

that are close to us can hurt us the

most and what i want is this idea of

going to the purpose to the to the

person for the purpose of reconciliation

and what did you do you created an

atmosphere so the bible says that the

goodness of god the kindness of god yes

led us to repentance yes so you


it wasn’t my idea this was your idea

i have i have the holy spirit and i have

lisa and i’m so thankful for both of

them but you suggested i give him a

really and i remember the gift we got

him was a lot of money for us oh my

goodness it was it was and i brought it

to him and i remember i’m creating an

atmosphere of goodness he opened it up

and he was like blown away and he he’s

like he didn’t know what to say and i

opened it up by saying i’ve been very

critical and judgmental of you and he’s

like no no no you haven’t i said oh yes

i have and you know what that did that

kindness had opened him up and the

humility on your part had opened him up

it opened him up and we’re still friends

to this day yeah and that was over 30

years ago so i just want every person

out there that is happening to listen to

this this is one of my favorite books of

john has this whole principle of walking

us through this place of forgiveness the

crash is just this beautiful story of

forgiveness but the bait of satan book

is my absolute favorite book of my

husbands and it is about how to escape

the trap of offense and i love this

subtle our response to an offense is

what determines our future that offense

doesn’t determine our future our

response to that offense

determines our future and so john they

can get

connected with the beta satan book on

the app right yeah i mean

yeah i mean tell me is aren’t you

getting ready to do a study

so the beta satan studies on the app

also the beta book club aren’t you audio

yeah i’m going to do a book club yeah

thanks honey um i’m going to do a book

i’m going to do a group because we’re

emphasizing groups right now on

uh messenger x because we believe

discipleship happens in groups not in

big massive auditoriums where there’s 5

000 people

and so i decided hey let’s do a group on

the beta state now

my team was kind of laughing because

they said well you may have 2 000 people

in your group and i said that’s okay

and i don’t know how they’re going to

navigate that but i am really excited

because lisa you know i mean i wrote the

beta satan 27 years ago but i didn’t

realize how absolutely relevant it would

be and necessary for today and you know

it’s amazing that book has sold the

publisher has sold i think they’re

pushing close to two million copies when

you look at all the over 100 languages

that it’s being sold and then we as a

ministry we’ve given away i think

hundreds of thousands of them to pastors

and leaders overseas and gosh at least i

hear it from individuals i hear from

families i hear from pastors all the

time how it has brought such healing in

areas that people are about ready to

give up in so people are ready to quit

marriages people are ready the churches

are ready to split and we just watch god

use it it’s a tool it’s it’s it’s it’s a

word from god i realize that it’s his

message to his church because of what

jesus predicted would happen in the last

days right before his second coming he

told the disciples the majority of the

people would be offended

wow and that feels like where we are

today listen i want to thank you guys

for tuning in and please remember to

rate review or subscribe to the show

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more people and right now you can grab a

copy of the beta satan book or go even

deeper on the journey on becoming

unoffendable you can listen to it in

your car messenger x on audiobook and

you can have the book book grab a copy

on amazon barnes and nobles or wherever

books are sold and if you have not yet

watched the

movie that we were talking about the

short film the crash

just grab a hold of you and go on to

messenger x we want to see you share

that with all sorts of people john you

know when the premiere was so many

people loved it so until next time this

has been conversations with john and

lisa bevere

thanks for listening to conversations

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