Motherhood often comes in packages that we least expected and don’t know we needed. SJR sits down with her mother and her longtime family friend as they discuss the impact of both mothering and receiving mothering outside of your blood line. ___________________________________ Watch the FULL My Mother, My Sister series on the Woman Evolve TV App. Stay plugged into the Woman Evolve community: www.womanevolve.com www.womanevolve.tv download the app from any mobile device’s app store, first 7 days are FREE! Want to support this ministry? Text WEGIVE to (833) 611-9066 FOLLOW US ON THE SOCIALS: Instagram: Woman Evolve and Sarah Jakes Roberts Twitter: Woman Evolve and SJakesRoberts Facebook: Woman Evolve and Sarah Jakes Roberts
you don’t always get everything you need
from the people who are in your lives
sometimes God brings people into your
life who can feel certain boys that
maybe you didn’t even realize that you
had maybe you do know that you had them
but you were unsure whether or not there
would ever be a relationship that could
fulfill that boy there are often moments
especially when it comes to Motherhood
where there are surrogate mothers who
come into our lives because our mothers
couldn’t give us what we needed or our
mothers are no longer here to give us
what we need and God sends along someone
who feels in the Gap I have been asked
time and time again probably two
questions as it relates to my parents
the first one is what’s it like for
Bishop TD Jakes to be your dad that’s a
whole nother story for a whole nother
episode the second question that I’m
usually asked is what is it like to
share your parents with the world and
the truth is that does have some
challenges but I don’t really share them
with the world they get pieces of them
but we have a much tighter Inner Circle
and I think a deeper question would be
what’s it like to share your parents
with the people who are around them
outside of my siblings and my father
there is one person who I have shared my
mother with the most interestingly
enough she is probably the most unlikely
person that you would consider me
sharing my mother with because this
little
Cherry this little Cherry from Amarillo
love it Amarillo this little Cherry from
Amarillo invaded Our Lives her name is
Cami Garner and literally for over the
last 20 years she has been an aunt a
sister a friend a cousin any of it a
writer
an enabler she’s taught me a lot of
things that we won’t get into today but
she’s been a gift and now even her
daughter Brianna is a sister to me I’m
the god mom to her children and yet we
met I think and probably an unusual
context and became family and so we’re
going to talk today about trusting God
to bring into your life what you need
even when you don’t know you need it or
you feel like you could never get it so
you have to break this down for me Kami
how do we go from
Amarillo
living your life there
into where we are today like what
happened how did you get
plugged in was
we’ll skip the part of why I came to the
church
all right
um came to the church in 97 right after
you got here
um immediately was drawn had never been
to church got saved under um Bishop in a
first lady ma
um this one found me behind trees huh
like literally she can tell the story
better than I can but I she would be
coming up the elevator they would say
Bishop’s coming
and so I would go behind behind this
tree it was in the old church okay and
she always saw me and she would say hi
Tammy and I would be like my name is
Cammy she was like okay Tammy nice so it
just kind of it you know rude rude but I
love the roads wait okay guys things all
right things are pivoting yeah well I
mean
I thought that Kenny was very very shy
and she was trying to hide from us but I
saw her every single Sunday and there
was this huge artificial tree right when
you step off the elevator and that’s
where she would duck as soon as we got
off the elevator I mean just
right
in those leaves and I said hi Tammy
and she was like my name is Kimmy I’m
like I know Tammy I don’t understand the
insistence on Tammy well
I always call people what their name
isn’t
because it’s a term of endearment
okay all right yeah it is it’s a term of
endearment and it wasn’t that I was
because she was it was funny to me first
of all first of all that we were in the
era of Tammy’s in the 90s and so I
thought yeah
there’s my Timmy Tammy Faye Baker no no
no
no no no no no definitely wasn’t
what does that tell me because it was a
heavy name okay nice all right totally
and I’ve never heard of Kimmy before
right which is your name
all right well back to your story yeah
and so it was just kind of a draw
it was just kind of a draw to her and
you know I was getting the word from
Bishop but I was getting
my life watching her um
I truly believe that God sent me to the
church
for her not only for the word for
salvation of course but for her and for
the family
um there were things no shade against my
mom because she did the best that she
could but there were things that I did
not get from her
um which is kind of why I relate to you
sharing because in a different sense I
shared my mom with her job I was like a
latchkey only kid so I kind of related a
little bit to y’all not on your level
because I wasn’t actually sharing her
with people but I didn’t get some of the
attention that I needed as a young girl
growing up and dealing with a stepfather
who was a policeman and not always there
it was
interesting I didn’t learn a lot of
stuff but I saw the femininity in her
in a good way
and learned that from her learned how to
be a lady learn how to be more classy
less the rough over the years it’s
evolved so I was drawn to her and then
the relationship
um
just formed where she was in transition
with her assistance and I just picked up
and helped that’s just what I do I just
help
and it’s been that way ever since at
what point though did it go from like
I’m just picking up the pieces to
helping to like
was there one particular experience or
one memory where it was like this is
what it must feel like to have another
mother
um
it’s been several
it’s been several um there was an
incident that happened with my child at
Mega Fest
that I refused to tell her till after
she spoke
because I had that much respect for the
anointing because she actually spoke
and when I told her I just finally broke
she knew something was wrong but she
couldn’t get it out of me
um and it was in that moment when she
took off
the first lady face
and she was like Mom that’s where Ma
came from and just said you’ll get
through this we’ll get through this
together and it’s been several instances
of we’ll get through this together for
both ways my thing has always been with
her when she comes to me with something
I don’t pry I can tell when she’s off
yeah this is too we’ve been together
but you know when something’s going on
clarifying yeah when something’s going
on and she’ll get around to saying what
it is and my thing has always been it’s
gonna be okay we’re gonna get through
this absolutely that’s always been our
thing we’re gonna get through this he’s
never not taking us through it wow so
yeah so you saw her I do I think
for someone who doesn’t have their mom
around or someone who’s never been seen
correctly by their mother
what does it feel like when you as a
woman see another woman
particularly from that lens of
motherhood and you lean into nurturing
her like do you know in the moment
that you see her that like my assignment
is to mother and nurture her or is it
does it happen organically because I
think one of the most powerful things
you said is that she saw me and I think
that part of what can make the
motherhood Dynamics so difficult is when
you feel like your mom’s not here to see
you or my mom just doesn’t see me so how
do you what does that feel like when you
see someone and then mother them that
way I think at the risk of sounding
super spiritual
um but then biologically if you’re a
nurturer or if you’re nursing a baby
whenever that baby cries your milk
starts flowing and I think in the spirit
I think that I can tap into
a cry a soul cry
that means I need your attention I need
your uh guidance I need a moment
and I’m not going to be able to come and
get it unless you bring it to me and so
with her and it doesn’t happen often
because I I’m full with my children I am
my milk is Flowing for my children but
there’s every once in a while
a rare once in a while I encountered her
nor have I since encountered the level
of nurturing that she pulls out of me
there’s so much that as a young woman as
a young mom she needed
um that and I didn’t even know her
mother I didn’t know her mother I didn’t
know her circumstances anything about it
but she was crying her soul was crying
for me and so I stopped and I let her
know that we have a conversation and it
doesn’t matter what your name is our
conversation is deeper than that and
then getting to know her mother
we became Selma and Louise when I tell
you
that cami’s mother is my counterpart she
is the blonde me she’s going to have on
her lips she’s going to have on her
nails she’s gonna have on her eyelashes
I mean she’s like this at all times and
so the time that we got to spend
together was so abrupt but there was an
urgency
that she learned that she could trust me
with her daughter first of all and and
kind of see who I really really was she
came to the house we got on the golf
cart we were flying around the place
just I mean just just came together like
she was my sister mom and she thanked me
for what I done for her daughter and her
granddaughter but it was it was my
assignment it’s yet my assignment until
otherwise yeah it’s it’s my assignment
and I’ve Kerry is so funny like Cami
when I first met her she we you know
like when you walk in the store they say
hello good afternoon and I mean I was
like can we speak to the people
you know
and and but
into this other person that nobody else
song
nobody else saw her like I see her
Soldier nobody else saw her and y’all
see her but nobody else saw her and she
was
in the sea of dark people but she was
comfortable yeah
because we saw her yeah that’s okay so I
was going to ask there were two things
that stood out I was going to ask if
knowing what you know now when you were
hiding behind that tree
what was your soul crying out for I like
that
but I saw at that time when I was hiding
behind that tree it was absolutely
calling out for a relationship with
Jesus but I didn’t understand how to get
it
how to get it and it was crying hard
um
I wouldn’t change a thing
I wouldn’t change a thing because I
think everything that I went through
everything that she’s taught me has made
me who I am today and at 53 I finally
know who I am
so I wouldn’t go back and change the
name but I needed somebody to see what I
was really crying for it wasn’t there
was no hidden agendas there’s still not
to this day
I needed
what she has inside of her what God’s
place inside of her I needed that
nurturing I needed to somebody that
understood my past and didn’t judge me
for it
and to let me know it’s okay
and that Jesus still loves me yeah
periods that’s what I needed from her
now I mean to your point you surrounded
by a bunch of black people oh yes but
that’s that’s me I’m a problem
how how
okay okay
um
go ahead do you ever feel has it ever
made you like because you are a white
girl from Amarillo she is a black girl
from Beckley outpokey West Virginia
and you guys have this incredible
connection
do you ever feel like the difference
racially
times yes at times yes I can’t
um not be honest and say yes at times do
but it’s never from her or you the rest
of your siblings or your father
um it’s from the outside and once you
learn to block off the outside and keep
the main thing the main thing it doesn’t
bother me
I don’t pretend to be black I don’t
pretend to know that what you have gone
through I don’t pretend to understand
that I sympathize with it and I hate it
but I think it’s a disservice for me to
act like I know yeah
um but no it doesn’t really bother me
there haven’t been I’m not uncomfortable
I’m comfortable I’m safe with y’all
that’s safe
and I know nothing’s gonna happen to me
yeah
baby what so no were you gonna say
something or are you going to add to
that no she’s my um interpreter because
sometimes I don’t understand
particularly now the climate that we’re
in and
um I have to get it from a perspective
from somebody that’s on the other
the other poll to know exactly what what
is it what is this hatred about what is
this
animosity what does this belittling
about
um I don’t understand
it I hate it
for me I was born in
Mullins West Virginia population 40
Counting pregnant women wow and so
basically there was a black camp
a colored camp and then there was a
white can
so all of my friends in elementary
school were white
and so I don’t I didn’t see that where
people treated you because of the color
of your skin
I mean all of our fathers worked in the
coal mines and they all came out black
and Dusty and when we gathered together
as a community when the sirens went off
everybody ran to the coal mines and all
of our fathers came out covered in
calmed but they came out and so when I
go back to my childhood Roots I see
Kimmy yeah you know I I see a cami and
so I don’t I I and a lot of people may
criticize me and call me like derogatory
names for choosing her over a system but
I didn’t choose Kimmy because of her
color I choose Cami because she sit in
my hand she was an instrument that I
could use to get what I needed to get
done without having to choose who’s the
fair of them all because there’s nobody
like her yeah
you know and so everybody else can have
their all of their Rifts and runs but
you know this is this is who she is for
me this works for me
this works for me and if I want sister
girl I call you
you know I call if I want sister girl
you know
um I don’t have a lot of tolerance for
that right now in my life my my life is
centered around my children
my husband and my purpose and anything
outside of those categories
are minuscule to me not saying that they
don’t matter yeah but they don’t take up
a lot of my nurturing space
and so it’s good to find somebody that
can give to you yeah when you’re at your
lowest or when I don’t want to talk she
doesn’t care if I don’t want her to
drive she doesn’t care but she it’s not
like I can’t chew her away
yeah yeah and I think that’s one of the
things that’s worked for us
is a letter be her
she’s at the end of the day
um she’s human and there’s times when
she wants to drive she needs that she
craves that servant space the normalcy
let me be my own person let me drive I
don’t push her to talk
I don’t
it’s it’s this I get her
now that type of relationship is
obviously cultivated over time and it’s
one that you all have mastered and seen
from season to season
and I think some of my mom’s wants some
of the darkest seasons in our lives like
I can see you there in those moments and
I believe that when God brings someone
into your life that that their presence
is evidence that you can trust God
because he’s going to cover you through
them and I feel like that’s what we’ve
been able to do as a unit even though we
weren’t biologically related we’ve been
able to experience the faithfulness of
God the ability to trust God take place
through the relationship we have with
one another I say that to say I just
happen to be in town when Miss Paula was
in the hospital
yeah and
um we were walking through a challenging
season
and blessed and fortunate that I have
not lost a parent
I have been told that no matter how old
you are when you lose a parent it’s like
being an orphan absolutely yeah
absolutely
and no matter how much you know
Somebody Loves You
somebody’s fighting for you that feeling
doesn’t go away grief doesn’t go away
that’s a misnomer that grief well no it
never goes away
is something that because they have
you’re that’s your parents she gave
birth to me yeah she always has a piece
of my heart
and I feel like I’m doing her a
disservice if I let the grief go away I
had to learn to cope with degree
but I have to let it out because I loved
she was so much a part of me our
relationship was strained at times but
it had gotten back to mom and daughter
before she passed we were lucky enough
when she had a stroke we were lucky
enough to bring her down here to live
with me for two months and I have to say
that was probably the best two months of
my life because I had my mom all to
myself she couldn’t talk she could say
cuss words but I mean it’s fine I like
it that was Miss Mama
but I mean everything else she was
mobile but
the two months that I got to spend with
her was time that we had lost
and we got that mother-daughter Bond
back even stronger before she passed and
when she passed it devastated me yeah
you do you feel like
why
I thought she was getting better
um
why why did you take her but when I look
back at when she passed and your mom
being in the room and right after she
passed y’all walking through the door
that is priceless to me you can’t ever
take that away from me
it was almost
the passing
her passing
actually passed her right into our lap I
mean your dad was there
I mean everybody was there Brianna was
there pregnant with Bonnie yeah
everybody was there and it was like this
is family and this is what family does
we always talk about Ruth being covered
with skirts but we never talk about the
fact that somebody else had to cover her
she had to ask somebody I mean it wasn’t
her skirt yeah so we have to cover yeah
people and that’s what we don’t do we
did not know that Miss Paul was going to
pass away and but those last few years
that we had with her were so remarkable
they were I mean
I’m your dad would be at the table like
I miss miss Paula you know and they were
just talking just to talk she loved to
talk she had a ball and then that very
next Thanksgiving
it wasn’t the same
and so it was it was meant to be yeah
and I would never want I lost my mother
and I made the mistake of thinking that
if I could find someone that dressed
like her or cooked the same macaroni and
cheese that I would still have a piece
of her but I realized that the part of
my mother that I have is the part that I
give to you all because that’s what I
need
I need I I still need it I I miss
Virginia every day yeah I need it and I
know that if she were here I would be
able to say gosh Sarah needs you know or
Ellen needs or core needs or germane’s I
don’t have that
so I feel uncovered
so yeah that’s what I was going to ask
you guys like
it’s Mother’s Day month right people are
going to be inundated with messages
about motherhood reminders of what they
have or don’t have
how do you maximize what you have left
how do you trust God with the aching
like what do we do
for those who Mother’s Day
it’s hard to celebrate not impossible
but challenging
for me
for you yeah for me
I’m to the point where the first
Mother’s Day was a blur
um the first Mother’s Day was a blur
for me I celebrate you of course I
celebrate you I celebrate my child too
it was a mother
because that’s what my mom would do
I’m kind of like her what would my mom
do
um
and that helps ease the pain of the day
now when you go home the worst mistake
you can make is try to be by yourself
that day that’s not
healthy
um but at the end of the day when you go
home and you do go to bed you’re like
it still stinks it still sucks it still
sucks but
celebrating others and giving back what
you’ve been given
helps a whole lot
it helps ease the pain
and I think I learned that from you my
little gift store
yes
yeah what do you do hold on to the fact
that I’m a daughter
I’m still a daughter
my parents are gone
but I got the best
mm-hmm I’ve got the best
mama
ever
so I’m still being nurtured and I’m not
I’m still being taken care of and I’m
still being told it’s gonna be okay and
my boo boos are still being kept and my
heart is still being mended somebody
still looks over me watches over me and
every woman is not a mother but every
woman is a daughter
and when my mother my father forsake me
the Lord picks me up
and that’s what I’ve learned I’ve
learned that I can’t just grovel in what
used to be
but be grateful for what was yeah and
build on it and try to be I get to be a
mother twice now I get to watch you and
then I get to watch you watch yours
and so it’s a show
it is
because my mom comes over she’s watching
tell me
I’ll fix it right now it’s funny unto me
to watch you in another form
is that what’s happening
I can’t help it I have money
oh I like what you did there Ellen I
love it King oh you’re so cute all right
hey before we go
um I would like for you all to take a
moment and honor one another
by completing this sentence to one
another
so thank you for nurturing the blank in
me and elaborate for is
much is necessary
I’m ready you go are you gonna make me
cry though probably okay it’s just hard
to eat this is what I do listen yes
thank you for nurturing the blanks
in me
and I’ve got
so many
flakes
that you have completed for me
who am I
what is my worth
do I have Kingdom value
who’s for me who’s against me
the blanks
in me
keep coming
and you’re always there with a pencil
and an eraser thank
yeah come on
thank you for nurturing
the purpose in me
for soul
she keeps telling me this
thank you for seeing what’s in me when I
can’t see it for myself
and for pushing me go for
it
go for it I can’t do it without you
yes you can
I can do it in a way without you but
without you
I can’t
cause you’re the one that sees me period
and you’re the covering that I need
go for it
and thank you for your correction
because without that correction I can’t
grow
oh we’re punks
such a loser
[Laughter]
thank you that’s so weird why would you
say that because because it’s so crazy
thank you for being the loser in me yeah
for nurturing the loser
and helping me to make poor decisions
yes as a teenager this is my moment yeah
thank you for all of the many ratchets
and hood rat things that you exposed me
to you’re welcome I would not be who I
am today
yes I am
um well and we trust God because we got
to find a way to just Loop this all in
there together and do with that what you
will yes all right good night now take
care