Motherhood often comes in packages that we least expected and don’t know we needed. SJR sits down with her mother and her longtime family friend as they discuss the impact of both mothering and receiving mothering outside of your blood line. ___________________________________ Watch the FULL My Mother, My Sister series on the Woman Evolve TV App. Stay plugged into the Woman Evolve community: download the app from any mobile device’s app store, first 7 days are FREE! Want to support this ministry? Text WEGIVE to (833) 611-9066 FOLLOW US ON THE SOCIALS: Instagram: Woman Evolve and Sarah Jakes Roberts Twitter: Woman Evolve and SJakesRoberts Facebook: Woman Evolve and Sarah Jakes Roberts

you don’t always get everything you need

from the people who are in your lives

sometimes God brings people into your

life who can feel certain boys that

maybe you didn’t even realize that you

had maybe you do know that you had them

but you were unsure whether or not there

would ever be a relationship that could

fulfill that boy there are often moments

especially when it comes to Motherhood

where there are surrogate mothers who

come into our lives because our mothers

couldn’t give us what we needed or our

mothers are no longer here to give us

what we need and God sends along someone

who feels in the Gap I have been asked

time and time again probably two

questions as it relates to my parents

the first one is what’s it like for

Bishop TD Jakes to be your dad that’s a

whole nother story for a whole nother

episode the second question that I’m

usually asked is what is it like to

share your parents with the world and

the truth is that does have some

challenges but I don’t really share them

with the world they get pieces of them

but we have a much tighter Inner Circle

and I think a deeper question would be

what’s it like to share your parents

with the people who are around them

outside of my siblings and my father

there is one person who I have shared my

mother with the most interestingly

enough she is probably the most unlikely

person that you would consider me

sharing my mother with because this


Cherry this little Cherry from Amarillo

love it Amarillo this little Cherry from

Amarillo invaded Our Lives her name is

Cami Garner and literally for over the

last 20 years she has been an aunt a

sister a friend a cousin any of it a


an enabler she’s taught me a lot of

things that we won’t get into today but

she’s been a gift and now even her

daughter Brianna is a sister to me I’m

the god mom to her children and yet we

met I think and probably an unusual

context and became family and so we’re

going to talk today about trusting God

to bring into your life what you need

even when you don’t know you need it or

you feel like you could never get it so

you have to break this down for me Kami

how do we go from


living your life there

into where we are today like what

happened how did you get

plugged in was

we’ll skip the part of why I came to the


all right

um came to the church in 97 right after

you got here

um immediately was drawn had never been

to church got saved under um Bishop in a

first lady ma

um this one found me behind trees huh

like literally she can tell the story

better than I can but I she would be

coming up the elevator they would say

Bishop’s coming

and so I would go behind behind this

tree it was in the old church okay and

she always saw me and she would say hi

Tammy and I would be like my name is

Cammy she was like okay Tammy nice so it

just kind of it you know rude rude but I

love the roads wait okay guys things all

right things are pivoting yeah well I


I thought that Kenny was very very shy

and she was trying to hide from us but I

saw her every single Sunday and there

was this huge artificial tree right when

you step off the elevator and that’s

where she would duck as soon as we got

off the elevator I mean just


in those leaves and I said hi Tammy

and she was like my name is Kimmy I’m

like I know Tammy I don’t understand the

insistence on Tammy well

I always call people what their name


because it’s a term of endearment

okay all right yeah it is it’s a term of

endearment and it wasn’t that I was

because she was it was funny to me first

of all first of all that we were in the

era of Tammy’s in the 90s and so I

thought yeah

there’s my Timmy Tammy Faye Baker no no


no no no no no definitely wasn’t

what does that tell me because it was a

heavy name okay nice all right totally

and I’ve never heard of Kimmy before

right which is your name

all right well back to your story yeah

and so it was just kind of a draw

it was just kind of a draw to her and

you know I was getting the word from

Bishop but I was getting

my life watching her um

I truly believe that God sent me to the


for her not only for the word for

salvation of course but for her and for

the family

um there were things no shade against my

mom because she did the best that she

could but there were things that I did

not get from her

um which is kind of why I relate to you

sharing because in a different sense I

shared my mom with her job I was like a

latchkey only kid so I kind of related a

little bit to y’all not on your level

because I wasn’t actually sharing her

with people but I didn’t get some of the

attention that I needed as a young girl

growing up and dealing with a stepfather

who was a policeman and not always there

it was

interesting I didn’t learn a lot of

stuff but I saw the femininity in her

in a good way

and learned that from her learned how to

be a lady learn how to be more classy

less the rough over the years it’s

evolved so I was drawn to her and then

the relationship


just formed where she was in transition

with her assistance and I just picked up

and helped that’s just what I do I just


and it’s been that way ever since at

what point though did it go from like

I’m just picking up the pieces to

helping to like

was there one particular experience or

one memory where it was like this is

what it must feel like to have another



it’s been several

it’s been several um there was an

incident that happened with my child at

Mega Fest

that I refused to tell her till after

she spoke

because I had that much respect for the

anointing because she actually spoke

and when I told her I just finally broke

she knew something was wrong but she

couldn’t get it out of me

um and it was in that moment when she

took off

the first lady face

and she was like Mom that’s where Ma

came from and just said you’ll get

through this we’ll get through this

together and it’s been several instances

of we’ll get through this together for

both ways my thing has always been with

her when she comes to me with something

I don’t pry I can tell when she’s off

yeah this is too we’ve been together

but you know when something’s going on

clarifying yeah when something’s going

on and she’ll get around to saying what

it is and my thing has always been it’s

gonna be okay we’re gonna get through

this absolutely that’s always been our

thing we’re gonna get through this he’s

never not taking us through it wow so

yeah so you saw her I do I think

for someone who doesn’t have their mom

around or someone who’s never been seen

correctly by their mother

what does it feel like when you as a

woman see another woman

particularly from that lens of

motherhood and you lean into nurturing

her like do you know in the moment

that you see her that like my assignment

is to mother and nurture her or is it

does it happen organically because I

think one of the most powerful things

you said is that she saw me and I think

that part of what can make the

motherhood Dynamics so difficult is when

you feel like your mom’s not here to see

you or my mom just doesn’t see me so how

do you what does that feel like when you

see someone and then mother them that

way I think at the risk of sounding

super spiritual

um but then biologically if you’re a

nurturer or if you’re nursing a baby

whenever that baby cries your milk

starts flowing and I think in the spirit

I think that I can tap into

a cry a soul cry

that means I need your attention I need

your uh guidance I need a moment

and I’m not going to be able to come and

get it unless you bring it to me and so

with her and it doesn’t happen often

because I I’m full with my children I am

my milk is Flowing for my children but

there’s every once in a while

a rare once in a while I encountered her

nor have I since encountered the level

of nurturing that she pulls out of me

there’s so much that as a young woman as

a young mom she needed

um that and I didn’t even know her

mother I didn’t know her mother I didn’t

know her circumstances anything about it

but she was crying her soul was crying

for me and so I stopped and I let her

know that we have a conversation and it

doesn’t matter what your name is our

conversation is deeper than that and

then getting to know her mother

we became Selma and Louise when I tell


that cami’s mother is my counterpart she

is the blonde me she’s going to have on

her lips she’s going to have on her

nails she’s gonna have on her eyelashes

I mean she’s like this at all times and

so the time that we got to spend

together was so abrupt but there was an


that she learned that she could trust me

with her daughter first of all and and

kind of see who I really really was she

came to the house we got on the golf

cart we were flying around the place

just I mean just just came together like

she was my sister mom and she thanked me

for what I done for her daughter and her

granddaughter but it was it was my

assignment it’s yet my assignment until

otherwise yeah it’s it’s my assignment

and I’ve Kerry is so funny like Cami

when I first met her she we you know

like when you walk in the store they say

hello good afternoon and I mean I was

like can we speak to the people

you know

and and but

into this other person that nobody else


nobody else saw her like I see her

Soldier nobody else saw her and y’all

see her but nobody else saw her and she


in the sea of dark people but she was

comfortable yeah

because we saw her yeah that’s okay so I

was going to ask there were two things

that stood out I was going to ask if

knowing what you know now when you were

hiding behind that tree

what was your soul crying out for I like


but I saw at that time when I was hiding

behind that tree it was absolutely

calling out for a relationship with

Jesus but I didn’t understand how to get


how to get it and it was crying hard


I wouldn’t change a thing

I wouldn’t change a thing because I

think everything that I went through

everything that she’s taught me has made

me who I am today and at 53 I finally

know who I am

so I wouldn’t go back and change the

name but I needed somebody to see what I

was really crying for it wasn’t there

was no hidden agendas there’s still not

to this day

I needed

what she has inside of her what God’s

place inside of her I needed that

nurturing I needed to somebody that

understood my past and didn’t judge me

for it

and to let me know it’s okay

and that Jesus still loves me yeah

periods that’s what I needed from her

now I mean to your point you surrounded

by a bunch of black people oh yes but

that’s that’s me I’m a problem

how how

okay okay


go ahead do you ever feel has it ever

made you like because you are a white

girl from Amarillo she is a black girl

from Beckley outpokey West Virginia

and you guys have this incredible


do you ever feel like the difference


times yes at times yes I can’t

um not be honest and say yes at times do

but it’s never from her or you the rest

of your siblings or your father

um it’s from the outside and once you

learn to block off the outside and keep

the main thing the main thing it doesn’t

bother me

I don’t pretend to be black I don’t

pretend to know that what you have gone

through I don’t pretend to understand

that I sympathize with it and I hate it

but I think it’s a disservice for me to

act like I know yeah

um but no it doesn’t really bother me

there haven’t been I’m not uncomfortable

I’m comfortable I’m safe with y’all

that’s safe

and I know nothing’s gonna happen to me


baby what so no were you gonna say

something or are you going to add to

that no she’s my um interpreter because

sometimes I don’t understand

particularly now the climate that we’re

in and

um I have to get it from a perspective

from somebody that’s on the other

the other poll to know exactly what what

is it what is this hatred about what is


animosity what does this belittling


um I don’t understand

it I hate it

for me I was born in

Mullins West Virginia population 40

Counting pregnant women wow and so

basically there was a black camp

a colored camp and then there was a

white can

so all of my friends in elementary

school were white

and so I don’t I didn’t see that where

people treated you because of the color

of your skin

I mean all of our fathers worked in the

coal mines and they all came out black

and Dusty and when we gathered together

as a community when the sirens went off

everybody ran to the coal mines and all

of our fathers came out covered in

calmed but they came out and so when I

go back to my childhood Roots I see

Kimmy yeah you know I I see a cami and

so I don’t I I and a lot of people may

criticize me and call me like derogatory

names for choosing her over a system but

I didn’t choose Kimmy because of her

color I choose Cami because she sit in

my hand she was an instrument that I

could use to get what I needed to get

done without having to choose who’s the

fair of them all because there’s nobody

like her yeah

you know and so everybody else can have

their all of their Rifts and runs but

you know this is this is who she is for

me this works for me

this works for me and if I want sister

girl I call you

you know I call if I want sister girl

you know

um I don’t have a lot of tolerance for

that right now in my life my my life is

centered around my children

my husband and my purpose and anything

outside of those categories

are minuscule to me not saying that they

don’t matter yeah but they don’t take up

a lot of my nurturing space

and so it’s good to find somebody that

can give to you yeah when you’re at your

lowest or when I don’t want to talk she

doesn’t care if I don’t want her to

drive she doesn’t care but she it’s not

like I can’t chew her away

yeah yeah and I think that’s one of the

things that’s worked for us

is a letter be her

she’s at the end of the day

um she’s human and there’s times when

she wants to drive she needs that she

craves that servant space the normalcy

let me be my own person let me drive I

don’t push her to talk

I don’t

it’s it’s this I get her

now that type of relationship is

obviously cultivated over time and it’s

one that you all have mastered and seen

from season to season

and I think some of my mom’s wants some

of the darkest seasons in our lives like

I can see you there in those moments and

I believe that when God brings someone

into your life that that their presence

is evidence that you can trust God

because he’s going to cover you through

them and I feel like that’s what we’ve

been able to do as a unit even though we

weren’t biologically related we’ve been

able to experience the faithfulness of

God the ability to trust God take place

through the relationship we have with

one another I say that to say I just

happen to be in town when Miss Paula was

in the hospital

yeah and

um we were walking through a challenging


and blessed and fortunate that I have

not lost a parent

I have been told that no matter how old

you are when you lose a parent it’s like

being an orphan absolutely yeah


and no matter how much you know

Somebody Loves You

somebody’s fighting for you that feeling

doesn’t go away grief doesn’t go away

that’s a misnomer that grief well no it

never goes away

is something that because they have

you’re that’s your parents she gave

birth to me yeah she always has a piece

of my heart

and I feel like I’m doing her a

disservice if I let the grief go away I

had to learn to cope with degree

but I have to let it out because I loved

she was so much a part of me our

relationship was strained at times but

it had gotten back to mom and daughter

before she passed we were lucky enough

when she had a stroke we were lucky

enough to bring her down here to live

with me for two months and I have to say

that was probably the best two months of

my life because I had my mom all to

myself she couldn’t talk she could say

cuss words but I mean it’s fine I like

it that was Miss Mama

but I mean everything else she was

mobile but

the two months that I got to spend with

her was time that we had lost

and we got that mother-daughter Bond

back even stronger before she passed and

when she passed it devastated me yeah

you do you feel like


I thought she was getting better


why why did you take her but when I look

back at when she passed and your mom

being in the room and right after she

passed y’all walking through the door

that is priceless to me you can’t ever

take that away from me

it was almost

the passing

her passing

actually passed her right into our lap I

mean your dad was there

I mean everybody was there Brianna was

there pregnant with Bonnie yeah

everybody was there and it was like this

is family and this is what family does

we always talk about Ruth being covered

with skirts but we never talk about the

fact that somebody else had to cover her

she had to ask somebody I mean it wasn’t

her skirt yeah so we have to cover yeah

people and that’s what we don’t do we

did not know that Miss Paul was going to

pass away and but those last few years

that we had with her were so remarkable

they were I mean

I’m your dad would be at the table like

I miss miss Paula you know and they were

just talking just to talk she loved to

talk she had a ball and then that very

next Thanksgiving

it wasn’t the same

and so it was it was meant to be yeah

and I would never want I lost my mother

and I made the mistake of thinking that

if I could find someone that dressed

like her or cooked the same macaroni and

cheese that I would still have a piece

of her but I realized that the part of

my mother that I have is the part that I

give to you all because that’s what I


I need I I still need it I I miss

Virginia every day yeah I need it and I

know that if she were here I would be

able to say gosh Sarah needs you know or

Ellen needs or core needs or germane’s I

don’t have that

so I feel uncovered

so yeah that’s what I was going to ask

you guys like

it’s Mother’s Day month right people are

going to be inundated with messages

about motherhood reminders of what they

have or don’t have

how do you maximize what you have left

how do you trust God with the aching

like what do we do

for those who Mother’s Day

it’s hard to celebrate not impossible

but challenging

for me

for you yeah for me

I’m to the point where the first

Mother’s Day was a blur

um the first Mother’s Day was a blur

for me I celebrate you of course I

celebrate you I celebrate my child too

it was a mother

because that’s what my mom would do

I’m kind of like her what would my mom



and that helps ease the pain of the day

now when you go home the worst mistake

you can make is try to be by yourself

that day that’s not


um but at the end of the day when you go

home and you do go to bed you’re like

it still stinks it still sucks it still

sucks but

celebrating others and giving back what

you’ve been given

helps a whole lot

it helps ease the pain

and I think I learned that from you my

little gift store


yeah what do you do hold on to the fact

that I’m a daughter

I’m still a daughter

my parents are gone

but I got the best

mm-hmm I’ve got the best



so I’m still being nurtured and I’m not

I’m still being taken care of and I’m

still being told it’s gonna be okay and

my boo boos are still being kept and my

heart is still being mended somebody

still looks over me watches over me and

every woman is not a mother but every

woman is a daughter

and when my mother my father forsake me

the Lord picks me up

and that’s what I’ve learned I’ve

learned that I can’t just grovel in what

used to be

but be grateful for what was yeah and

build on it and try to be I get to be a

mother twice now I get to watch you and

then I get to watch you watch yours

and so it’s a show

it is

because my mom comes over she’s watching

tell me

I’ll fix it right now it’s funny unto me

to watch you in another form

is that what’s happening

I can’t help it I have money

oh I like what you did there Ellen I

love it King oh you’re so cute all right

hey before we go

um I would like for you all to take a

moment and honor one another

by completing this sentence to one


so thank you for nurturing the blank in

me and elaborate for is

much is necessary

I’m ready you go are you gonna make me

cry though probably okay it’s just hard

to eat this is what I do listen yes

thank you for nurturing the blanks

in me

and I’ve got

so many


that you have completed for me

who am I

what is my worth

do I have Kingdom value

who’s for me who’s against me

the blanks

in me

keep coming

and you’re always there with a pencil

and an eraser thank

yeah come on

thank you for nurturing

the purpose in me

for soul

she keeps telling me this

thank you for seeing what’s in me when I

can’t see it for myself

and for pushing me go for


go for it I can’t do it without you

yes you can

I can do it in a way without you but

without you

I can’t

cause you’re the one that sees me period

and you’re the covering that I need

go for it

and thank you for your correction

because without that correction I can’t


oh we’re punks

such a loser


thank you that’s so weird why would you

say that because because it’s so crazy

thank you for being the loser in me yeah

for nurturing the loser

and helping me to make poor decisions

yes as a teenager this is my moment yeah

thank you for all of the many ratchets

and hood rat things that you exposed me

to you’re welcome I would not be who I

am today

yes I am

um well and we trust God because we got

to find a way to just Loop this all in

there together and do with that what you

will yes all right good night now take