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okay so the first one okay this person
said boundaries it sounds so selfish the
Bible talks about serving and laying
down our life how do I balance biblical
ideas and healthy
[Music]
boundaries chip I’m so glad you could
join us and I know that so many people
have gotten so many relational insights
out of this just like John and I have
and what I’ve got now is this incredible
opportunity answer questions we had so
many people say if I could sit down with
chip this is what I’d want to know so
I’m going to fire questions at you all
right and I believe you’re going to have
answers for these all right okay so the
first one okay this person said
boundaries it sounds so selfish the
Bible talks about serving and laying
down our life how do I balance biblical
ideas and healthy boundaries yeah that’s
a great question I honestly I hear that
a good bit um probably my answer would
be be that serving is my deciding to do
something for your
benefit um boundaries come into play
because if I need you to like me want
you to like me I want to belong to the
whatever click you’re a part of and I
serve you I’m serving you to get
something back from it and I would call
that more Mutual manipulation that I
would serving serving is when I I can
say no to you but um I choose not to and
I serve you but if I can’t say no to you
if I feel compelled to do what you need
me to do I just don’t know that that’s
serving I think a lot of it goes on the
body of Christ that we call serving I
would call Mutual manipulation wow it’s
different it’s different ways that we
guilt each other into doing things and
um I’m even real sensitive to how people
set things up in their questions and you
know with each other and um I just think
we need to be free to respond even
incorrectly yeah um and if we are then
what I do is true serving yeah but if I
basically don’t have a choice to come
off looking right then I don’t know that
I called serving you know I’ve had a lot
of wives tell me that they’ve had their
husband say you have to submit to me
because I am the head of the household
now how do you how do you weave this in
because you know that that’s a difficult
one yeah I love that one uh we talk in
the course about uh three things that
run together and they always run in this
order responsibility Authority and power
and God always defines our
responsibility gives us the authority
within the real realm of that
responsibility and then the power to
carry out the to back up our Authority
so when a husband centers on the phrase
wife CER husbands what he’s doing is
he’s he’s he wants Authority and he
wants his authority to be honored and
quite honestly we help him out quite a
bit because we’ll talk about honoring
the office and all that kind of thing my
deal is this um you know I have a little
story I tell in the course that uh you
know Bubba brings that up to me you know
hey preacher you know the Bible and I
say bubba you know what’s your job and
Bubba doesn’t know his job no they do
know the women’s job yeah yes they do
yes and so for me when I say what’s your
job I don’t know you know it’s love your
wife as Jesus loves the church so here’s
the thing if you do your
responsibility you won’t have to you
know like Proclaim your Authority right
she if you if you do your job correctly
she’s going to want to follow you so as
soon as you as soon as you use what I
call ultimative Authority you’ve already
lost wow wow okay so this is also kind
of weaving around the same topic is how
do you apply healthy boundaries in
different cultures I told you I’m
getting ready to go to a culture that is
very different than the American culture
you’ve got people all over the world how
do we how do we apply
these I got hit with this oh this has
been a few years back I I was teaching
in a setting Multicultural setting and I
mean internationally and uh um there was
a group of women from an Asian country
and I can you know how you can tell when
somebody’s not with you they’re frumping
you know when you’re up talking and I
could tell they were kind of you know
pushing back yeah so during the break I
I kind of said well hey what’s going on
and broken English and they
said this could never work in our
culture and they because they talked
about revering the elders and past
generations and all that and and what
came to me and I’m not saying it’s a
perfect answer but what came to me is
we’re called to enter and build the
kingdom of God right which is a
culture so I believe um it’s our
challenge no matter what what culture
we’re a part of to figure out where our
culture and God’s culture align and
where they don’t and now do I say you
just blow it up and make everybody mad
or whatever I mean occasionally you may
have to but for the most part if you
just incrementally begin to shift toward
a more biblical Kingdom culture again
ultimately my responsibility your
responsibility is to express the Kingdom
of Heaven and Earth not if it can be
done through the coloration of your
culture that’s wonderful right but if it
can’t then it’s your culture that needs
to shift yeah and a lot of cultures I
don’t you know want to act like the
Western culture is a kingdom culture
everything about the kingdom is very
counterculture most of the times okay so
here’s another one what are appropriate
boundaries in instances where abuse is
present I mean this not an easy one no I
mean uh I mean legally as a counselor
you have things you have to adhere to
you they call it the duty to warn you
have to if you know there’s
physical abuse happening sexual abuse
verbal abuse would be a little trickier
but um you have a a legal obligation to
report um from a spiritual standpoint U
my thing is to to honor the spirit of
the marriage or the spirit of whatever
the relationship is but let’s assume
it’s something is serious as a marriage
I believe you can honor the spirit of
the marriage but still take appropriate
steps to protect the person so if I’m a
wife and I’m in a situation where I I
feel that my safety is threatened not
just my husband’s saying things that are
hurting my heart but my safety is
threatened what would you say to me I
would say to you that we have an
obligation to report it to the proper
authorities okay and let’s get you
somewhere safe yeah and hopefully we
would have a church community and family
that would be able to accommodate that
temporarily while we figured out a
longer term solution yeah I think that
there should be a group of men that
women that feel threatened by some other
man in their life they can the the women
of the church can call those those
Brothers show up and they escort the
husband out I think that’s what should
happen I thought you said they were
going to come over and work the guy over
and I was like that would be that would
be the Sicilian part of me saying
solution but but I do think a lot of
times we have blurred these lines in the
church abolutely and things that are
illegal should not just be handled alone
in the church if it’s illegal you need
to bring someone outside of the church
when it breaks the law and and I hope
you understand we’re giving you
permission we don’t want you to be at
risk we don’t want you to not be safe we
don’t want your children to not be safe
we don’t want you to say oh but I’m
trying to cover for my husband no you’re
not uncovering your husband by
protecting your children your husband
uncovered himself when he made those
choices so we want you safe and you know
what when there’s consequences that’s a
catalyst for change so another question
what is the difference between being a
nurturer somebody who gives nurture and
somebody that is an
enabler okay the key the key word for me
when when you’re in this area is the
word responsibility so what we want to
do is make sure the person who makes
choices is responsible for the
consequences of those choices okay so
one of the main forms of enabling is
person a makes bad choice es right
person B cleans up the mess right pays
for the bill or in some way protects
them calls work and says they’re sick
when really they’re hung over so person
A’s made bad choices and they’ve
produced bad consequences but person B
is paying for them right and that would
be classic definition of enabling where
you’re you’re not allowing the person to
to the way we learn to make good choices
is by making bad ones right if we pay
for them you know um I I remember God
just really dealing with me about
something and saying there’s nothing
more frustrating than feeling
responsible for something you have no
authority over so if you feel
responsible to to I have to fix this I
have to fix this well why do you have to
fix it so what a nurture would do in
that situation someone makes a mess what
would a nurturer do well you Ed an
interesting phrase there you you you you
feel the desire the responsibility to
fix something but you have no Authority
if you if you feel responsibility but
have no Authority it’s false
responsibility right because if it’s
god-given responsibility the authority
to carry it out would be there so I can
want to help you but I’ve got to deal
with the reality of how the universe
works and if you don’t want to pay the
price to get healthier if you don’t want
to pay the price to break the cycle then
my helping you is probably a form of
enabling and it’s probably something I
better enjoy because I’m going to be
doing it for a long time so so a nurture
could actually let somebody suffer
consequence a healthy nurturer exactly
yes say healthy nurturer should realize
yes yes absolutely but I’m not going to
rescue you because I’m not actually
really helping you when I Rescue all the
time right okay all right great okay
good question how can I be a good step
parent I know this is complicated to
kids that live with me and my spouse all
right Blended families are tricky um
rule of thumb I use is this whoever is
the natural parent should set the
standard for disciplining those children
in other words they they they were a
part of that other home for however long
now they’ve come with whichever spouse
into this home the stepparent should not
be the one that um brings his or her
philosophy of parenting style of
discipline expectations Etc it needs to
be the natural parent that sets the tone
and and implementation of that otherwise
it creates the opportunity for a lot of
playing this one against that one and
it’s not easy no um any conversations
need to be had need to be had in private
yeah and you figure out how to how to go
out in front of the kids and and give a
unified front and I would think that the
natural parents would have to have an
agreement this is what we are both
upholding so it isn’t one set of
discipline when they’re with a father
and then another set of discipline when
they’re with the mother that would be
ideal yeah ideally but I would have to
say most of the time doesn’t work out
that smoothly you know um I’ve had
opportunity to talk to a couple of
couples that actually have had a great
um I mean I I didn’t understand how they
did have had a great response and and
they actually said they came to the mom
and said I really love your children and
I really respect your role in how can I
be helpful and and not be a competitor
I’m not trying to take your role as
favorite mother but I want to be
supportive and said it so took some time
but then the mother was really
cooperating and really appreciated that
she loved the children so a healthy mom
would want that it could go a whole lot
better than it frequently does right
this is a question I wish I’d had the
answer to about 10 years ago it says how
do you have boundaries in relationships
with parents siblings in-laws who are
emotionally draining how do how do you
do that how do you set up those
boundaries they’re parents siblings
in-laws yeah all right interesting
little phrase you train people how to
treat you in other words words behavior
that I reward I’m going to get more of
behavior I don’t reward I hopefully will
get less of yeah so um I’m wired in such
a way that I would probably have a chat
with them and I would probably say hey
love you guys love to have a you know
very healthy you know engaging
relationship but
um there’s times when it’s just very
draining it’s very difficult and I’d be
happy to try to figure out how to help
you overcome that yeah but in the
meantime it’s probably going to affect
the frequency with which we come to
visit now I would probably handle it
something like that you don’t
necessarily have to be that direct what
you could do is just implement the plan
right without explaining it meaning you
train people how to treat you you know
so you you know you go you have a visit
it’s not all that great and you just
stretch the next one out a little
further than maybe they may want um you
know uh my own mother um I one of seven
kids and most of them all live their
lives up in New York I’m the main One
That Got Away you might say and uh we
would go my wife and I Colleen would go
and we’d um go visit and pick her up and
take her to the hotel or wherever we’re
going and
occasionally she’d be a little gripey
and I would just not necessarily stop
the car but I would just look over and
i’ say Mom here’s the deal we’re not
we’re not doing that we’re not going to
spend our weekend angry and fussing
and I said if if you feel like that’s
what you want to do then I’ll just take
you back home but if you’d like to just
relax and have a good weekend I would
love to yeah and she was a dream wow so
do maybe she just needed some clarity
yeah I think so and I think you know you
know you’ve heard the word in meshed I
think what happens in a lot of
situations is um the child craves the
parents approval the parent craves the
child
attention affection respect whatever and
um you know it’s kind of the classic two
ticks and no dog where I need this from
you you need that from me and we use it
to manipulate each other and nobody’s
really having fun my deal is I love my
mom but I don’t need her to act a
certain way for me to be okay so I’m
okay to say Mom I love you and I love to
spend this weekend with you but I’m
going to be okay if I don’t I know that
John N have had some challenges when
family all brings up stuff from the past
right so I’m always we’ve always kind of
said you know what we want to talk about
what we’re going to do in the future not
about what we did 10 years ago 30 years
ago when we were seven we you know we
want to build some some things for the
future and that TS out but I think when
families get together there’s a little
bit of a pecking order that goes into
play that can be unhealthy you know
there’s a there’s a reality though that
we have to deal with let’s just again I
don’t mean this to sound critical or
judgmental
but possibly we’ve continued on a growth
curve growth curve spiritually
emotionally relationally that maybe
they’ve not had the advantage of right
because they haven’t taken it or it
wasn’t available whatever or they have a
different marriage yeah different career
paths so you’re going to get around them
and they they just don’t operate by the
same set of rules yeah and um I think
there’s times when we need to be big
enough to just roll with that you know
they’re doing the best they can with
what they have and let’s just make the
best of it that’s awesome no not going
to be back in a hurry but you know and
we’ve also found it’s great to invite
them into our world yeah you know that
you’ve got a different Rhythm and
sometimes when you invite them into a
different different setting different
environment then they don’t go back into
the patterns okay this is a great
question and I think this is both for
marriages as well as friendships how do
you sustain a deep friendship over time
wow I know that’s that’s a a big
question yeah I would say the key word
to me is deep because um I think over a
lifetime you probably have less than
five friendships where you can say
anything almost do anything and you’re
still going to be loved and accepted um
I’m a I’m I’m not a very good friend
what I mean by that is what I do for a
living is I have intense conversations
almost every day of my life when it’s
time to relax I don’t feel like having
another conversation so I’m not a great
guy at keeping up with people but I love
depth so I’ve got a handful of people
that I’ve connected deeply with my wife
and I’ve connected deeply with and
they’re the kind of friends that you
could not see for two years and you pick
right up and as soon as you sit down
it’s like you were together last weekend
yeah and uh my best friend uh just moved
back to Charleston we met in col College
oh F uh he was my best man at my wedding
I was best man at his he became a
Christian about 3 to 6 months after I
did um and it was exact and he’s even
told me he said you know in some ways
you’re not a great friend you know I’ll
write you whatever and takes a little
long to get a response we live a very
different Rhythm of Life it makes it
hard to be good friends but I like what
you’re saying cuz I think sometimes this
idea of a deep
relationship um you can have a deep
relationship with some somebody and it
doesn’t mean every time you’re with them
you talk about deep things that can be a
depth of understanding where sometimes
you don’t even have to say anything
you’re just comfortable with each other
and then there’s other things that if
you know you need to go to them or you
need to verbally process with them you
know they’re going to understand what
you’re really saying and not judge you
for it and be able to actually say
that’s enough you’re being ridiculous
now let’s talk about what’s really going
on yeah so all right good and and I know
that um you really helped me with John I
remember thinking oh John just doesn’t
he’s not sharing his feelings deep
enough and you said hey you think
because he can’t verbally say what he is
feeling that he doesn’t feel it deeply
and you helped me as a wife to
understand actually he may even feel it
deeper than you but he just doesn’t know
how to say it so I would say that to
every woman out here that’s like my man
is not deep you don’t understand maybe
he does not know how to give voice to
what he’s feeling and so instead of
getting mad at about him why don’t you
help him be able to speak those things
to you okay how can I truly be open with
someone without scaring them off and
there’s a second part should I share
about my past if yes at what point I
feel like I should answer this one but
no I’m curious okay so first truly be
open some without scaring them off well
first of all that sounds like you’re
doing it too soon with some people and
you’re sharing way too much and you
should not share about your past until
you know that you’re actually wanting to
build a future with this person that’s
my opinion I don’t think everybody needs
to know everything about everyone but me
my question to both of those questions
would be why like if you’re if you’re if
you’re wondering if it’s too soon then
why are you even considering doing it oh
maybe they don’t want to have anything
hidden maybe they want to be open with
the person but again I think there needs
to be a trust level with that person
absolutely where you don’t just say hey
here’s everything about my life and I
hope you like me still you know give
them a chance to actually find out who
you are now before you tell them about
who you’ve been because I think a lot of
times people can’t see who we are or who
we’re becoming because they’re so
overwhelmed by our past probably the
context of the relationship right would
be would help me answer that question
yeah yeah so you don’t want to scare
them off yeah but you also don’t need to
be scared about sharing about something
but it needs to be the right person in
the right time yeah yeah so I mean I
love being transparent and vulnerable um
because you know in a sense once you’ve
processed your past stuff it feels very
removed from you yeah it’s really it’s
almost like I’m talking about somebody
else’s life um but but to scare someone
off I mean that makes me think that you
know maybe there’s some elements of my
history that they may not be quite ready
to include in the puzzle of me right and
uh that would just make me question what
kind of a relationship it is yeah and I
don’t think everybody gets to read the
pages of your book I think there’s some
people your husband gets to read the
pages and people on random people on air
want to read gets read exactly I
highlight those for John okay what are
the best exercises practical ways to
gain back trust in your marriage after
it’s been broken oh I know wow
forgiveness is an obligation trust is
always earned trust is never a gift and
if you kind of do a study of that you’ll
find out it holds pretty solid I think
it’s 1 Corinthians 4 I think says um
above all a stu a steward must be found
faithful yeah uh found faithful and I
would say that means overtime and in
different context so um the thing about
trust is trust is something you don’t
even think about Till It’s Gone wow
until it’s broken till it’s lost okay
because I trust this chair right until I
went over to another chair and it broke
and I fell but I trust press the chair
just cuz I don’t even think about it I
just but once it breaks um I don’t care
how many times you tell me oh no we
fixed it I’m going to choose a different
chair probably and with with marital
challenges to trust
um the usually the the the the
perpetrator if you will the person who’s
damaged the trust they um it’s kind of
interesting they it’s like they were in
Iraq and they went to the emergency room
and they got bandaged up um and they
feel better right well the other person
is in the wreck with them and they’re
the ones who got run over by the truck
and they’re not feeling so great right
and the other one’s like well come on
man you know you’ve forgiven me haven’t
you and let’s get back to normal
well here’s this the you know whatever I
hate to have to say some other stuff but
trust is such an elemental part of a
relationship that
um I there’s some damage to trust that I
don’t know that things can ever be
completely the same now I think God can
get that piece where it needs to go but
the person who’s done the hurting of the
other person um they got to really be
willing to walk that thing out so one of
the worst things they could possibly do
is why don’t you trust me they should
actually just have actions they should
just be building they have a calendar
like well you should be here by now or
you should you know so they should let
them let them have some time on that
okay all right so yeah and and finding
out I I know for me um you know having
having a conversation to say what are
the things I can do and what are the
things I shouldn’t do so that you know
you can trust me you know like yeah lots
of conversations lots of conversations
so like you know for a wife of her
husband has a problem with Internet
pornography you know like okay let’s
have the laptop in the kitchen or you or
something like that to put some
boundaries and so that there can be
constructive and if the husband’s like
no you’re not going to make me do that
then immediately she’s going to be like
I can’t yeah that’s a major warning sign
and I think a lot of times it doesn’t I
don’t necessarily mean like a
professional counselor although that
sometimes is needed but sometimes a
third party that can kind of buffer that
accountability um and it and it not be
quite as much of a hot potato all the
time yeah all right how to cope when you
live together work together lead
together and raise a baby together did
you ever do all this together John and I
sure did so work together live together
lead together and now they’re raising a
baby together how do they
cope I would say it’s rare that it works
well because it just takes really it
takes Unique Individuals to pull it off
um I would say my wife and I have done
all of that except for the work together
part and she did work for me she was my
my office executive person for about a
year and it didn’t work very well for us
um I’ve I’ve tried to fire myself a
couple times um and uh and I think John
might have threatened to fire me a
couple times but I I will say it is
difficult and I agree with you um one of
the things is I think it’s good to
assess it and say what can we do because
I remember I sat down with John and I
said this is what I can do now that I’m
raising a baby right I can edit your
books right I can do this I can’t do
this and this and this anymore so I
think when you have a baby now in the
mix you might need to step back and say
I can’t do everything I used to do um or
you know hey I remember I used to pay
all the bills back when they were
writing checks and stuff and when it
went electronic John was like I don’t
need you to do this anymore I’m GNA take
this and it was wonderful so we we had
this different Rhythm but John and I are
I would say it is a unique uh situation
there’s a lot of couples that don’t
necessarily um have the grace of God on
their life to do it like we do it and
that’s all I meant by that I think you
know there’s agree there’s a lot of
things that come into play when I I
laugh about the year my wife worked for
me because the way it showed itself was
not in some ways maybe that some people
would expect it wasn’t like we fussed at
work and that kind of thing it was more
be sitting at dinner and you know you’re
home and you’re kind of trying to unplug
and you know Cony would say well you
know hey we need to deal with blah blah
blah and i’ I’d be like baby I don’t
want to talk about that right now and it
was just this weird like then every once
in a while you’d have to have that
conversation okay now I I I need to talk
to you as your boss not as your husband
well as soon as you do that you’re
already in trouble I mean you’re it’s
over I don’t whatever follows that is
not going to be good yeah yeah well it’s
actually made us grow up a lot sure
because we’ve we’ve done it every
possible way wrong I know that so how do
I take responsibility for my actions but
not for another person’s feelings so
they’re saying I want to I want to be
responsible for my actions but not for
their feelings and the line between
these often feel blurred right right can
I understand that yeah and again plays
out differently in different
relationships husband wife parent child
friend
um you know let’s use a parent and child
um uh there’s nothing wrong with um a
parent wanting to have you know lots of
time together let’s let’s do lunch every
Sunday let’s you know they live close
enough let’s you know let’s we’ll keep
the kids two nights a week whatever and
and that may work for everybody but
let’s just say that it doesn’t work for
both of the children married husband
wife maybe it works for the child of
that family but not the
spouse um there’s times when you you you
have to deal with um we’re going to
follow what we believe we need to do and
we’re responsible for the the integrity
and strength of our home um we’re not
responsible we can be we can care about
and be sensitive to the issue of your
feelings but that’s not what we’re going
to base our decisions on we’re not
ultimately responsible for that um you
know another application of that would
be how my actions affect someone else I
mean someone who um I’m trying to think
of a situation a good example where it’s
not something wrong that’s being done
but uh you know uh I mean there’s some
that that are not wrong but they cross a
line and become wrong a guy who loves to
hunt and you know hunting is not wrong
it’s not Dam that depends who you talk
to but yes damaging and destructive in
and of itself but what if over time or
maybe he started with a blind spot of
how much hunting is okay and what he
doesn’t realize is that his wife’s uh
starving for time with him where he gets
she gets the same amount of passion and
attention as hunting has Andor just time
out of her own Rhythm where he’s kind of
taking up some of the slack so there’s
lots of ways where where we’ve really
got to look at our actions and they’re
affect on other people you know my
husband uh he loves birthdays he thinks
that like there’s a birthday week for
John bavier I mean like he loves birth
Hees his birthday or birthday he loves
his birthday he loves his birthday and I
kind of am kind of with him yeah and I’m
kind of like ah you know birthdays are
fine like I I’ll fly home from overseas
on my birthday I’ll say I don’t want to
party and so we had to have a talk
because John felt that my inaction
around around his birthday I wasn’t
paying enough attention his his my
actions of ignoring or being like hey
you’re grown now you don’t get to be
like we’re doing the boys now that that
it was associating I didn’t care about
him and so he had to explained to me how
he felt about his birthday now I will
say it’s so high I feel like every year
I’m already going to fail and it’s a
month away but he but he has such a high
expectation on his birthday and so I had
to be able to say to him you know it
wasn’t that I was withhold that it just
isn’t important to me so I think when I
was able to separate what he perceived
as my feelings or lack of feelings on
his birthday and my actions and
inactions then I think that was good and
I and I I do think sometimes that there
are people that are say well that’s too
bad you didn’t like that I think I think
we need to have responsibility that if
we care about the person if my actions
hurt them I need to say why why did that
hurt you okay well and have that convers
ation and if it’s just silly then be
able to say well that’s not what I meant
and that’s not what that said and I I
also think there would be value in
dissecting down to what the importance
is like if I’m John and I’m hurt that
you don’t make a big deal about my
birthdays if I take it to the point of
well if you loved me yeah you’d that’s
yeah assigning too much value to that’s
that’s not fair but I don’t think it’d
be wrong to say
because of this or that in my childhood
because of this or that whatever it
really really means a lot to
meh that’s probably in an acceptable
Zone absolutely you know but not if you
make it about well if you loved me BL
you do this right yeah all right what
are the warning signs that I have a
boundary issue in my
relationship um anger is always about
boundaries okay you don’t use the word
always very often okay but I’m
comfortable anger is always about
boundaries now it’s not always unhealthy
it’s not always wrong okay but it’s
always about anger is always about a
warning sign anger something’s out of
order every emotion serves a purpose
anger is em the emotion of um dis and
protection and whatever of
Italians yeah it took me a minute to
catch that that’s all right yeah but
anger is always about I want you to do
something you’re not doing or stop doing
something you are doing
very that’s obviously very Loosely so um
how do I know I have a boundary
problem emotion uh encroachment creates
emotion okay when there’s when there
when there’s an encroachment of
boundaries it’s always going to create
an emotional violated yes okay now the
tricky thing is it may
Manifest this might be the issue but and
it may show up over here and um but yeah
almost always when there’s boundary
violations you’re going to have
emotional uh
smoke when where there’s smoke there’s
fire and um but anger’s a big one anger
anger’s always anger’s all none of
thought that’s cool about anger is um
anger is a secondary emotion it’s never
the first one yeah you know you feel it
after you’ve been hurt disrespected you
know abandoned or whatever so uh it’s
really good to you know listen to
emotions don’t believe everything they
tell you but follow them because they’re
trying to tell you something yeah and uh
I for me when God started to put his
finger on my issue with anger I found
out the real issue was fear yeah you
know so the anger matched the fear so it
wasn’t an anger issue it was a fear
issue and actually if you go a little
further it was a belief issue an
unbelief issue because I believe that
God was good for everybody but not for
me so there was I had to go all the way
to the root of that what is the warning
sign that I’m seeking to control or
manipulate other people in my life
uh I mean not meaning to be comical but
people just avoid
you you either have you either have
short friendships with healthier people
and all the friends you have for any
length of time are not very healthy
because healthy people are not going to
hang around that they’re not going to
it’s just not going to work for them so
you know watching the kind of friends
you attract and retain okay tells you
something about yourself um
you know kind what about in a marriage
situation if you’re manipulative just
assume you
are I mean really to some degree I mean
that assume that you are meaning we all
have a desire to work toward the things
that we think we need and want and we
may not necessarily have direct ways
that we go about it
so I I mean it you know assume that you
probably have some less than um direct
full of Integrity ways you go about
getting getting what you want and if you
just take the word manipulate it’s not a
bad word maybe they’re trying to protect
themselves for a season well manipulate
just means to move that plan I
manipulated that plan so it’s not bad
it’s just it it it does get down to
motives and and meths if you’re
manipulating someone to control them
that’s always unhealthy but if you’re
manipulating something to change a
situation where you’re no longer
training them to treat you the way you
used to train them to treat you but
you’re training them a new way that
would be moving towards Health rather
than moving it towards control a word
you just said trigger this for me you
know if you’re manipulating someone to
control them and and I would probably be
pretty comfortable looking at
manipulation the same way um people
don’t have control issues what you were
doing a minute ago where you kind of
following it down people that feel they
need to control don’t trust they’re
going to get what they need right unless
they make sure unless they control it so
control is really a trust issue and
trust is really a fear issue and so when
I’m around someone who’s manipulative
manipulative or controlling I want I’m
kind of what you did and I was kind of
smiling when you did it because it was
beautifully done how you went from the
problem itself and worked down because
here’s the key this is the fruit this is
the root if you attack the fruit you
strengthen the root yeah and you’re
pruning the tree so yeah and it’s just
going to grow bigger fruit of that same
kind so with manipul in control it
really is someone who’s who’s
fearful that I’m not going to get what I
need I’m not going to get love I’m not
going to get whatever and
um that at least elicits some compassion
from us right doesn’t make it any more
pleasant but it elicits com compassion
and maybe helps us think a little bit
more about coming up with a
solution than just dealing with the
person right okay what does it look like
to love people without trying to change
them yet knowing that changing negative
patterns of behavior would be the best
thing for them yeah
um you know uh the the joke you know
woman’s praying for a husband and she
kind of has a Freudian slip you know and
she says God you love him while I change
him and the reality of it is if someone
I love and someone I assume loves me is
kind of committed pretty often to
strategies to change me it it’s really
pretty hard for me to feel good about
myself and I’m not
trusting uh the other players in the
game God yeah and that person yeah so I
you know I think it it’s never worked
well for John and I when he tries to
change me or I try to change him it’s
never worked well and God never actually
talks to me about anybody changing but
me when I pray he’s like you he doesn’t
ever talk to me about anybody else and
oddly when we allow God to change us uh
it’s pretty interesting how it affects
the other person because it changes the
pattern yeah right the dance they would
call it in some of the literature I love
that how do I identify and overcome
wrong beliefs I adopted in my childhood
if I operate in these
subconsciously right so they’re saying
it’s is a deep Deep River right
responding up here how do they and
that’s pretty much the how we operate
right you know whatever I love to talk
about it’s kind of my little hobby right
now studying the brain itself and one of
the biggest jobs the brain does is clear
your plate of what you don’t need to pay
attention to because attention’s a very
rich resource very expensive energy wise
and everything so what your brain does
is once you’ve done something enough
that it’s kind of become learned it sort
of packages it as a program it’s like
we’re not going to think about this
anymore and then it puts it in a
different part of the brain literally
it’s an autopilot and and what happens
is now it becomes um
you know stimulus response
reward but the problem is stimulus
response bad
result and but yet you keep doing it and
and kind of that’s that’s a really
really oversimplified way to say what
what we’re all up against what we’re all
up against is most unhealthy behavior in
our adulthood is behavior we learned to
survive childhood that we don’t need to
do anymore but we still do you know I
know for me when I ask God you know
what’s going on here and why am I doing
this why am I doing this why am I doing
this and I began to renew my mind when I
was ready to hear it he went to the very
root of the why and he kept saying it’s
not about why he said you can figure out
you spend your whole life figureing out
why you’re messed up Lisa you’ll still
be messed up once you know why he said
you need to know the truth to a greater
degree of intimacy than you’ve known the
lie and so I think a lot of times people
try to go back when they actually
haven’t put what they need deposited
what they needed in their life to go
forward right and so um I feel like God
can root out those subconscious things
if we take it to the Holy Spirit and
read the word of God and it renews our
mind and kind of what we’ve already
talked about the way you figure you know
like you said they’re subconscious so
you’re kind of not aware of them well
the way you become aware of them is by
what it causes in your life right well
you know for John and I John would say
why when we’re hugging are you the first
one to start padding and then push me
away and why do you like why do you
always pull away and he finally said to
me I’m not your dad and I looked at him
I said I know you’re not my dad and he’s
like but you’re acting like all men
leave and that one day I’ll leave you
and so you have this and I remember I
had to say he’s right but I was mad
because I didn’t know how to stop it so
when I got alone with God I said I need
you to begin to heal this and God
started to heal the wound between my
father father and I when he healed the
wound between my father and I it healed
the wound between my husband and I so
again it’s like the anger just trying to
change your response without going into
a deeper healing so we believe I had a
similar thing with my mother and wife my
my mom had a heart attack and I felt
like she manipulated my father with you
know well Leroy you better do XYZ or I
might die of a heart attack and uh so I
kind of took up an offense for my dad
against my mom but I also kind of made
like an inner vow that no woman’s going
to ever control me like that yeah and so
here I am married to this wonderful
woman that loves me and who has not had
a heart attack no and she and this is
early in our marriage and I’m I’m a
brand new Christian and I I would react
weirdly to her being assertive and
confident whatever and eventually what
God help me do is Trail it down to that
situation with my mom where I had just
decided no woman is going to control me
and she wasn’t trying to control me
right but I just overreacted and that’s
one of the ways you smoke these things
out when you know the Situation’s this
big your response is this big and you’re
like okay there’s something else going
on here it’s a trigger all right how do
I break iniquity or negative tendencies
in my
family oh my goodness all right
responsibility Authority and power yeah
if you’re the head of the house you have
a fair amount of responsibility if
you’re the third kid out out of six
ain’t your job yeah I know that for John
and I we realize going forward yeah
going forward we we were like now we’re
a new family going forward Absolut we’re
going to we’re going to rounce things
and move forward well the exciting thing
is we can by our choices by our actions
by our obedience we can change
multigenerational patterns right but to
go back is almost impossible yeah it’ll
make you crazy don’t do it okay we’re
almost done here last question okay what
if the other person is not in agreement
with my
boundaries I believe we can make
choices that honor our boundaries
without violating somebody else’s it’s a
tricky little tight RPP walk sometime
particularly like in a marriage or
something but if the key to boundaries
is responsibility yeah and I’m
responsible for everything inside my
personal space my circle then um the key
is to communicate enough to where you’re
taking responsibility for yours I’m
taking responsibility for mine and um
absolutely the other person may say I’m
good with the way we’ve always done
things I believe you can move toward
Health okay
and it’s a little tacky to say because
there’s people that I’m sure are in
tricky situations sure um you’re going
to benefit either way you’re going to
come out healthier and maybe with a
spouse that came with you or you’re
going to end up healthier with a spouse
who chose not to go with you okay but I
can promise you this if you do nothing
different nothing’s going to change
thank you so you end up not healthier
yeah and with a marriage it’s not
healthier so either way move forward
there’s some risk involved yeah sure
there always is yeah all well I hope
this has been so helpful I hope we’ve
been able to do a little bit of a deep
dive into the questions we love hearing
from you I know that you enjoyed the
session so these are just a little bit
more pointed chip thank you so much we
appreciate your time you’re amazing I’m
honored to have done
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