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okay so the first one okay this person

said boundaries it sounds so selfish the

Bible talks about serving and laying

down our life how do I balance biblical

ideas and healthy


boundaries chip I’m so glad you could

join us and I know that so many people

have gotten so many relational insights

out of this just like John and I have

and what I’ve got now is this incredible

opportunity answer questions we had so

many people say if I could sit down with

chip this is what I’d want to know so

I’m going to fire questions at you all

right and I believe you’re going to have

answers for these all right okay so the

first one okay this person said

boundaries it sounds so selfish the

Bible talks about serving and laying

down our life how do I balance biblical

ideas and healthy boundaries yeah that’s

a great question I honestly I hear that

a good bit um probably my answer would

be be that serving is my deciding to do

something for your

benefit um boundaries come into play

because if I need you to like me want

you to like me I want to belong to the

whatever click you’re a part of and I

serve you I’m serving you to get

something back from it and I would call

that more Mutual manipulation that I

would serving serving is when I I can

say no to you but um I choose not to and

I serve you but if I can’t say no to you

if I feel compelled to do what you need

me to do I just don’t know that that’s

serving I think a lot of it goes on the

body of Christ that we call serving I

would call Mutual manipulation wow it’s

different it’s different ways that we

guilt each other into doing things and

um I’m even real sensitive to how people

set things up in their questions and you

know with each other and um I just think

we need to be free to respond even

incorrectly yeah um and if we are then

what I do is true serving yeah but if I

basically don’t have a choice to come

off looking right then I don’t know that

I called serving you know I’ve had a lot

of wives tell me that they’ve had their

husband say you have to submit to me

because I am the head of the household

now how do you how do you weave this in

because you know that that’s a difficult

one yeah I love that one uh we talk in

the course about uh three things that

run together and they always run in this

order responsibility Authority and power

and God always defines our

responsibility gives us the authority

within the real realm of that

responsibility and then the power to

carry out the to back up our Authority

so when a husband centers on the phrase

wife CER husbands what he’s doing is

he’s he’s he wants Authority and he

wants his authority to be honored and

quite honestly we help him out quite a

bit because we’ll talk about honoring

the office and all that kind of thing my

deal is this um you know I have a little

story I tell in the course that uh you

know Bubba brings that up to me you know

hey preacher you know the Bible and I

say bubba you know what’s your job and

Bubba doesn’t know his job no they do

know the women’s job yeah yes they do

yes and so for me when I say what’s your

job I don’t know you know it’s love your

wife as Jesus loves the church so here’s

the thing if you do your

responsibility you won’t have to you

know like Proclaim your Authority right

she if you if you do your job correctly

she’s going to want to follow you so as

soon as you as soon as you use what I

call ultimative Authority you’ve already

lost wow wow okay so this is also kind

of weaving around the same topic is how

do you apply healthy boundaries in

different cultures I told you I’m

getting ready to go to a culture that is

very different than the American culture

you’ve got people all over the world how

do we how do we apply

these I got hit with this oh this has

been a few years back I I was teaching

in a setting Multicultural setting and I

mean internationally and uh um there was

a group of women from an Asian country

and I can you know how you can tell when

somebody’s not with you they’re frumping

you know when you’re up talking and I

could tell they were kind of you know

pushing back yeah so during the break I

I kind of said well hey what’s going on

and broken English and they

said this could never work in our

culture and they because they talked

about revering the elders and past

generations and all that and and what

came to me and I’m not saying it’s a

perfect answer but what came to me is

we’re called to enter and build the

kingdom of God right which is a

culture so I believe um it’s our

challenge no matter what what culture

we’re a part of to figure out where our

culture and God’s culture align and

where they don’t and now do I say you

just blow it up and make everybody mad

or whatever I mean occasionally you may

have to but for the most part if you

just incrementally begin to shift toward

a more biblical Kingdom culture again

ultimately my responsibility your

responsibility is to express the Kingdom

of Heaven and Earth not if it can be

done through the coloration of your

culture that’s wonderful right but if it

can’t then it’s your culture that needs

to shift yeah and a lot of cultures I

don’t you know want to act like the

Western culture is a kingdom culture

everything about the kingdom is very

counterculture most of the times okay so

here’s another one what are appropriate

boundaries in instances where abuse is

present I mean this not an easy one no I

mean uh I mean legally as a counselor

you have things you have to adhere to

you they call it the duty to warn you

have to if you know there’s

physical abuse happening sexual abuse

verbal abuse would be a little trickier

but um you have a a legal obligation to

report um from a spiritual standpoint U

my thing is to to honor the spirit of

the marriage or the spirit of whatever

the relationship is but let’s assume

it’s something is serious as a marriage

I believe you can honor the spirit of

the marriage but still take appropriate

steps to protect the person so if I’m a

wife and I’m in a situation where I I

feel that my safety is threatened not

just my husband’s saying things that are

hurting my heart but my safety is

threatened what would you say to me I

would say to you that we have an

obligation to report it to the proper

authorities okay and let’s get you

somewhere safe yeah and hopefully we

would have a church community and family

that would be able to accommodate that

temporarily while we figured out a

longer term solution yeah I think that

there should be a group of men that

women that feel threatened by some other

man in their life they can the the women

of the church can call those those

Brothers show up and they escort the

husband out I think that’s what should

happen I thought you said they were

going to come over and work the guy over

and I was like that would be that would

be the Sicilian part of me saying

solution but but I do think a lot of

times we have blurred these lines in the

church abolutely and things that are

illegal should not just be handled alone

in the church if it’s illegal you need

to bring someone outside of the church

when it breaks the law and and I hope

you understand we’re giving you

permission we don’t want you to be at

risk we don’t want you to not be safe we

don’t want your children to not be safe

we don’t want you to say oh but I’m

trying to cover for my husband no you’re

not uncovering your husband by

protecting your children your husband

uncovered himself when he made those

choices so we want you safe and you know

what when there’s consequences that’s a

catalyst for change so another question

what is the difference between being a

nurturer somebody who gives nurture and

somebody that is an

enabler okay the key the key word for me

when when you’re in this area is the

word responsibility so what we want to

do is make sure the person who makes

choices is responsible for the

consequences of those choices okay so

one of the main forms of enabling is

person a makes bad choice es right

person B cleans up the mess right pays

for the bill or in some way protects

them calls work and says they’re sick

when really they’re hung over so person

A’s made bad choices and they’ve

produced bad consequences but person B

is paying for them right and that would

be classic definition of enabling where

you’re you’re not allowing the person to

to the way we learn to make good choices

is by making bad ones right if we pay

for them you know um I I remember God

just really dealing with me about

something and saying there’s nothing

more frustrating than feeling

responsible for something you have no

authority over so if you feel

responsible to to I have to fix this I

have to fix this well why do you have to

fix it so what a nurture would do in

that situation someone makes a mess what

would a nurturer do well you Ed an

interesting phrase there you you you you

feel the desire the responsibility to

fix something but you have no Authority

if you if you feel responsibility but

have no Authority it’s false

responsibility right because if it’s

god-given responsibility the authority

to carry it out would be there so I can

want to help you but I’ve got to deal

with the reality of how the universe

works and if you don’t want to pay the

price to get healthier if you don’t want

to pay the price to break the cycle then

my helping you is probably a form of

enabling and it’s probably something I

better enjoy because I’m going to be

doing it for a long time so so a nurture

could actually let somebody suffer

consequence a healthy nurturer exactly

yes say healthy nurturer should realize

yes yes absolutely but I’m not going to

rescue you because I’m not actually

really helping you when I Rescue all the

time right okay all right great okay

good question how can I be a good step

parent I know this is complicated to

kids that live with me and my spouse all

right Blended families are tricky um

rule of thumb I use is this whoever is

the natural parent should set the

standard for disciplining those children

in other words they they they were a

part of that other home for however long

now they’ve come with whichever spouse

into this home the stepparent should not

be the one that um brings his or her

philosophy of parenting style of

discipline expectations Etc it needs to

be the natural parent that sets the tone

and and implementation of that otherwise

it creates the opportunity for a lot of

playing this one against that one and

it’s not easy no um any conversations

need to be had need to be had in private

yeah and you figure out how to how to go

out in front of the kids and and give a

unified front and I would think that the

natural parents would have to have an

agreement this is what we are both

upholding so it isn’t one set of

discipline when they’re with a father

and then another set of discipline when

they’re with the mother that would be

ideal yeah ideally but I would have to

say most of the time doesn’t work out

that smoothly you know um I’ve had

opportunity to talk to a couple of

couples that actually have had a great

um I mean I I didn’t understand how they

did have had a great response and and

they actually said they came to the mom

and said I really love your children and

I really respect your role in how can I

be helpful and and not be a competitor

I’m not trying to take your role as

favorite mother but I want to be

supportive and said it so took some time

but then the mother was really

cooperating and really appreciated that

she loved the children so a healthy mom

would want that it could go a whole lot

better than it frequently does right

this is a question I wish I’d had the

answer to about 10 years ago it says how

do you have boundaries in relationships

with parents siblings in-laws who are

emotionally draining how do how do you

do that how do you set up those

boundaries they’re parents siblings

in-laws yeah all right interesting

little phrase you train people how to

treat you in other words words behavior

that I reward I’m going to get more of

behavior I don’t reward I hopefully will

get less of yeah so um I’m wired in such

a way that I would probably have a chat

with them and I would probably say hey

love you guys love to have a you know

very healthy you know engaging

relationship but

um there’s times when it’s just very

draining it’s very difficult and I’d be

happy to try to figure out how to help

you overcome that yeah but in the

meantime it’s probably going to affect

the frequency with which we come to

visit now I would probably handle it

something like that you don’t

necessarily have to be that direct what

you could do is just implement the plan

right without explaining it meaning you

train people how to treat you you know

so you you know you go you have a visit

it’s not all that great and you just

stretch the next one out a little

further than maybe they may want um you

know uh my own mother um I one of seven

kids and most of them all live their

lives up in New York I’m the main One

That Got Away you might say and uh we

would go my wife and I Colleen would go

and we’d um go visit and pick her up and

take her to the hotel or wherever we’re

going and

occasionally she’d be a little gripey

and I would just not necessarily stop

the car but I would just look over and

i’ say Mom here’s the deal we’re not

we’re not doing that we’re not going to

spend our weekend angry and fussing

and I said if if you feel like that’s

what you want to do then I’ll just take

you back home but if you’d like to just

relax and have a good weekend I would

love to yeah and she was a dream wow so

do maybe she just needed some clarity

yeah I think so and I think you know you

know you’ve heard the word in meshed I

think what happens in a lot of

situations is um the child craves the

parents approval the parent craves the


attention affection respect whatever and

um you know it’s kind of the classic two

ticks and no dog where I need this from

you you need that from me and we use it

to manipulate each other and nobody’s

really having fun my deal is I love my

mom but I don’t need her to act a

certain way for me to be okay so I’m

okay to say Mom I love you and I love to

spend this weekend with you but I’m

going to be okay if I don’t I know that

John N have had some challenges when

family all brings up stuff from the past

right so I’m always we’ve always kind of

said you know what we want to talk about

what we’re going to do in the future not

about what we did 10 years ago 30 years

ago when we were seven we you know we

want to build some some things for the

future and that TS out but I think when

families get together there’s a little

bit of a pecking order that goes into

play that can be unhealthy you know

there’s a there’s a reality though that

we have to deal with let’s just again I

don’t mean this to sound critical or


but possibly we’ve continued on a growth

curve growth curve spiritually

emotionally relationally that maybe

they’ve not had the advantage of right

because they haven’t taken it or it

wasn’t available whatever or they have a

different marriage yeah different career

paths so you’re going to get around them

and they they just don’t operate by the

same set of rules yeah and um I think

there’s times when we need to be big

enough to just roll with that you know

they’re doing the best they can with

what they have and let’s just make the

best of it that’s awesome no not going

to be back in a hurry but you know and

we’ve also found it’s great to invite

them into our world yeah you know that

you’ve got a different Rhythm and

sometimes when you invite them into a

different different setting different

environment then they don’t go back into

the patterns okay this is a great

question and I think this is both for

marriages as well as friendships how do

you sustain a deep friendship over time

wow I know that’s that’s a a big

question yeah I would say the key word

to me is deep because um I think over a

lifetime you probably have less than

five friendships where you can say

anything almost do anything and you’re

still going to be loved and accepted um

I’m a I’m I’m not a very good friend

what I mean by that is what I do for a

living is I have intense conversations

almost every day of my life when it’s

time to relax I don’t feel like having

another conversation so I’m not a great

guy at keeping up with people but I love

depth so I’ve got a handful of people

that I’ve connected deeply with my wife

and I’ve connected deeply with and

they’re the kind of friends that you

could not see for two years and you pick

right up and as soon as you sit down

it’s like you were together last weekend

yeah and uh my best friend uh just moved

back to Charleston we met in col College

oh F uh he was my best man at my wedding

I was best man at his he became a

Christian about 3 to 6 months after I

did um and it was exact and he’s even

told me he said you know in some ways

you’re not a great friend you know I’ll

write you whatever and takes a little

long to get a response we live a very

different Rhythm of Life it makes it

hard to be good friends but I like what

you’re saying cuz I think sometimes this

idea of a deep

relationship um you can have a deep

relationship with some somebody and it

doesn’t mean every time you’re with them

you talk about deep things that can be a

depth of understanding where sometimes

you don’t even have to say anything

you’re just comfortable with each other

and then there’s other things that if

you know you need to go to them or you

need to verbally process with them you

know they’re going to understand what

you’re really saying and not judge you

for it and be able to actually say

that’s enough you’re being ridiculous

now let’s talk about what’s really going

on yeah so all right good and and I know

that um you really helped me with John I

remember thinking oh John just doesn’t

he’s not sharing his feelings deep

enough and you said hey you think

because he can’t verbally say what he is

feeling that he doesn’t feel it deeply

and you helped me as a wife to

understand actually he may even feel it

deeper than you but he just doesn’t know

how to say it so I would say that to

every woman out here that’s like my man

is not deep you don’t understand maybe

he does not know how to give voice to

what he’s feeling and so instead of

getting mad at about him why don’t you

help him be able to speak those things

to you okay how can I truly be open with

someone without scaring them off and

there’s a second part should I share

about my past if yes at what point I

feel like I should answer this one but

no I’m curious okay so first truly be

open some without scaring them off well

first of all that sounds like you’re

doing it too soon with some people and

you’re sharing way too much and you

should not share about your past until

you know that you’re actually wanting to

build a future with this person that’s

my opinion I don’t think everybody needs

to know everything about everyone but me

my question to both of those questions

would be why like if you’re if you’re if

you’re wondering if it’s too soon then

why are you even considering doing it oh

maybe they don’t want to have anything

hidden maybe they want to be open with

the person but again I think there needs

to be a trust level with that person

absolutely where you don’t just say hey

here’s everything about my life and I

hope you like me still you know give

them a chance to actually find out who

you are now before you tell them about

who you’ve been because I think a lot of

times people can’t see who we are or who

we’re becoming because they’re so

overwhelmed by our past probably the

context of the relationship right would

be would help me answer that question

yeah yeah so you don’t want to scare

them off yeah but you also don’t need to

be scared about sharing about something

but it needs to be the right person in

the right time yeah yeah so I mean I

love being transparent and vulnerable um

because you know in a sense once you’ve

processed your past stuff it feels very

removed from you yeah it’s really it’s

almost like I’m talking about somebody

else’s life um but but to scare someone

off I mean that makes me think that you

know maybe there’s some elements of my

history that they may not be quite ready

to include in the puzzle of me right and

uh that would just make me question what

kind of a relationship it is yeah and I

don’t think everybody gets to read the

pages of your book I think there’s some

people your husband gets to read the

pages and people on random people on air

want to read gets read exactly I

highlight those for John okay what are

the best exercises practical ways to

gain back trust in your marriage after

it’s been broken oh I know wow

forgiveness is an obligation trust is

always earned trust is never a gift and

if you kind of do a study of that you’ll

find out it holds pretty solid I think

it’s 1 Corinthians 4 I think says um

above all a stu a steward must be found

faithful yeah uh found faithful and I

would say that means overtime and in

different context so um the thing about

trust is trust is something you don’t

even think about Till It’s Gone wow

until it’s broken till it’s lost okay

because I trust this chair right until I

went over to another chair and it broke

and I fell but I trust press the chair

just cuz I don’t even think about it I

just but once it breaks um I don’t care

how many times you tell me oh no we

fixed it I’m going to choose a different

chair probably and with with marital

challenges to trust

um the usually the the the the

perpetrator if you will the person who’s

damaged the trust they um it’s kind of

interesting they it’s like they were in

Iraq and they went to the emergency room

and they got bandaged up um and they

feel better right well the other person

is in the wreck with them and they’re

the ones who got run over by the truck

and they’re not feeling so great right

and the other one’s like well come on

man you know you’ve forgiven me haven’t

you and let’s get back to normal

well here’s this the you know whatever I

hate to have to say some other stuff but

trust is such an elemental part of a

relationship that

um I there’s some damage to trust that I

don’t know that things can ever be

completely the same now I think God can

get that piece where it needs to go but

the person who’s done the hurting of the

other person um they got to really be

willing to walk that thing out so one of

the worst things they could possibly do

is why don’t you trust me they should

actually just have actions they should

just be building they have a calendar

like well you should be here by now or

you should you know so they should let

them let them have some time on that

okay all right so yeah and and finding

out I I know for me um you know having

having a conversation to say what are

the things I can do and what are the

things I shouldn’t do so that you know

you can trust me you know like yeah lots

of conversations lots of conversations

so like you know for a wife of her

husband has a problem with Internet

pornography you know like okay let’s

have the laptop in the kitchen or you or

something like that to put some

boundaries and so that there can be

constructive and if the husband’s like

no you’re not going to make me do that

then immediately she’s going to be like

I can’t yeah that’s a major warning sign

and I think a lot of times it doesn’t I

don’t necessarily mean like a

professional counselor although that

sometimes is needed but sometimes a

third party that can kind of buffer that

accountability um and it and it not be

quite as much of a hot potato all the

time yeah all right how to cope when you

live together work together lead

together and raise a baby together did

you ever do all this together John and I

sure did so work together live together

lead together and now they’re raising a

baby together how do they

cope I would say it’s rare that it works

well because it just takes really it

takes Unique Individuals to pull it off

um I would say my wife and I have done

all of that except for the work together

part and she did work for me she was my

my office executive person for about a

year and it didn’t work very well for us

um I’ve I’ve tried to fire myself a

couple times um and uh and I think John

might have threatened to fire me a

couple times but I I will say it is

difficult and I agree with you um one of

the things is I think it’s good to

assess it and say what can we do because

I remember I sat down with John and I

said this is what I can do now that I’m

raising a baby right I can edit your

books right I can do this I can’t do

this and this and this anymore so I

think when you have a baby now in the

mix you might need to step back and say

I can’t do everything I used to do um or

you know hey I remember I used to pay

all the bills back when they were

writing checks and stuff and when it

went electronic John was like I don’t

need you to do this anymore I’m GNA take

this and it was wonderful so we we had

this different Rhythm but John and I are

I would say it is a unique uh situation

there’s a lot of couples that don’t

necessarily um have the grace of God on

their life to do it like we do it and

that’s all I meant by that I think you

know there’s agree there’s a lot of

things that come into play when I I

laugh about the year my wife worked for

me because the way it showed itself was

not in some ways maybe that some people

would expect it wasn’t like we fussed at

work and that kind of thing it was more

be sitting at dinner and you know you’re

home and you’re kind of trying to unplug

and you know Cony would say well you

know hey we need to deal with blah blah

blah and i’ I’d be like baby I don’t

want to talk about that right now and it

was just this weird like then every once

in a while you’d have to have that

conversation okay now I I I need to talk

to you as your boss not as your husband

well as soon as you do that you’re

already in trouble I mean you’re it’s

over I don’t whatever follows that is

not going to be good yeah yeah well it’s

actually made us grow up a lot sure

because we’ve we’ve done it every

possible way wrong I know that so how do

I take responsibility for my actions but

not for another person’s feelings so

they’re saying I want to I want to be

responsible for my actions but not for

their feelings and the line between

these often feel blurred right right can

I understand that yeah and again plays

out differently in different

relationships husband wife parent child


um you know let’s use a parent and child

um uh there’s nothing wrong with um a

parent wanting to have you know lots of

time together let’s let’s do lunch every

Sunday let’s you know they live close

enough let’s you know let’s we’ll keep

the kids two nights a week whatever and

and that may work for everybody but

let’s just say that it doesn’t work for

both of the children married husband

wife maybe it works for the child of

that family but not the

spouse um there’s times when you you you

have to deal with um we’re going to

follow what we believe we need to do and

we’re responsible for the the integrity

and strength of our home um we’re not

responsible we can be we can care about

and be sensitive to the issue of your

feelings but that’s not what we’re going

to base our decisions on we’re not

ultimately responsible for that um you

know another application of that would

be how my actions affect someone else I

mean someone who um I’m trying to think

of a situation a good example where it’s

not something wrong that’s being done

but uh you know uh I mean there’s some

that that are not wrong but they cross a

line and become wrong a guy who loves to

hunt and you know hunting is not wrong

it’s not Dam that depends who you talk

to but yes damaging and destructive in

and of itself but what if over time or

maybe he started with a blind spot of

how much hunting is okay and what he

doesn’t realize is that his wife’s uh

starving for time with him where he gets

she gets the same amount of passion and

attention as hunting has Andor just time

out of her own Rhythm where he’s kind of

taking up some of the slack so there’s

lots of ways where where we’ve really

got to look at our actions and they’re

affect on other people you know my

husband uh he loves birthdays he thinks

that like there’s a birthday week for

John bavier I mean like he loves birth

Hees his birthday or birthday he loves

his birthday he loves his birthday and I

kind of am kind of with him yeah and I’m

kind of like ah you know birthdays are

fine like I I’ll fly home from overseas

on my birthday I’ll say I don’t want to

party and so we had to have a talk

because John felt that my inaction

around around his birthday I wasn’t

paying enough attention his his my

actions of ignoring or being like hey

you’re grown now you don’t get to be

like we’re doing the boys now that that

it was associating I didn’t care about

him and so he had to explained to me how

he felt about his birthday now I will

say it’s so high I feel like every year

I’m already going to fail and it’s a

month away but he but he has such a high

expectation on his birthday and so I had

to be able to say to him you know it

wasn’t that I was withhold that it just

isn’t important to me so I think when I

was able to separate what he perceived

as my feelings or lack of feelings on

his birthday and my actions and

inactions then I think that was good and

I and I I do think sometimes that there

are people that are say well that’s too

bad you didn’t like that I think I think

we need to have responsibility that if

we care about the person if my actions

hurt them I need to say why why did that

hurt you okay well and have that convers

ation and if it’s just silly then be

able to say well that’s not what I meant

and that’s not what that said and I I

also think there would be value in

dissecting down to what the importance

is like if I’m John and I’m hurt that

you don’t make a big deal about my

birthdays if I take it to the point of

well if you loved me yeah you’d that’s

yeah assigning too much value to that’s

that’s not fair but I don’t think it’d

be wrong to say

because of this or that in my childhood

because of this or that whatever it

really really means a lot to

meh that’s probably in an acceptable

Zone absolutely you know but not if you

make it about well if you loved me BL

you do this right yeah all right what

are the warning signs that I have a

boundary issue in my

relationship um anger is always about

boundaries okay you don’t use the word

always very often okay but I’m

comfortable anger is always about

boundaries now it’s not always unhealthy

it’s not always wrong okay but it’s

always about anger is always about a

warning sign anger something’s out of

order every emotion serves a purpose

anger is em the emotion of um dis and

protection and whatever of

Italians yeah it took me a minute to

catch that that’s all right yeah but

anger is always about I want you to do

something you’re not doing or stop doing

something you are doing

very that’s obviously very Loosely so um

how do I know I have a boundary

problem emotion uh encroachment creates

emotion okay when there’s when there

when there’s an encroachment of

boundaries it’s always going to create

an emotional violated yes okay now the

tricky thing is it may

Manifest this might be the issue but and

it may show up over here and um but yeah

almost always when there’s boundary

violations you’re going to have

emotional uh

smoke when where there’s smoke there’s

fire and um but anger’s a big one anger

anger’s always anger’s all none of

thought that’s cool about anger is um

anger is a secondary emotion it’s never

the first one yeah you know you feel it

after you’ve been hurt disrespected you

know abandoned or whatever so uh it’s

really good to you know listen to

emotions don’t believe everything they

tell you but follow them because they’re

trying to tell you something yeah and uh

I for me when God started to put his

finger on my issue with anger I found

out the real issue was fear yeah you

know so the anger matched the fear so it

wasn’t an anger issue it was a fear

issue and actually if you go a little

further it was a belief issue an

unbelief issue because I believe that

God was good for everybody but not for

me so there was I had to go all the way

to the root of that what is the warning

sign that I’m seeking to control or

manipulate other people in my life

uh I mean not meaning to be comical but

people just avoid

you you either have you either have

short friendships with healthier people

and all the friends you have for any

length of time are not very healthy

because healthy people are not going to

hang around that they’re not going to

it’s just not going to work for them so

you know watching the kind of friends

you attract and retain okay tells you

something about yourself um

you know kind what about in a marriage

situation if you’re manipulative just

assume you

are I mean really to some degree I mean

that assume that you are meaning we all

have a desire to work toward the things

that we think we need and want and we

may not necessarily have direct ways

that we go about it

so I I mean it you know assume that you

probably have some less than um direct

full of Integrity ways you go about

getting getting what you want and if you

just take the word manipulate it’s not a

bad word maybe they’re trying to protect

themselves for a season well manipulate

just means to move that plan I

manipulated that plan so it’s not bad

it’s just it it it does get down to

motives and and meths if you’re

manipulating someone to control them

that’s always unhealthy but if you’re

manipulating something to change a

situation where you’re no longer

training them to treat you the way you

used to train them to treat you but

you’re training them a new way that

would be moving towards Health rather

than moving it towards control a word

you just said trigger this for me you

know if you’re manipulating someone to

control them and and I would probably be

pretty comfortable looking at

manipulation the same way um people

don’t have control issues what you were

doing a minute ago where you kind of

following it down people that feel they

need to control don’t trust they’re

going to get what they need right unless

they make sure unless they control it so

control is really a trust issue and

trust is really a fear issue and so when

I’m around someone who’s manipulative

manipulative or controlling I want I’m

kind of what you did and I was kind of

smiling when you did it because it was

beautifully done how you went from the

problem itself and worked down because

here’s the key this is the fruit this is

the root if you attack the fruit you

strengthen the root yeah and you’re

pruning the tree so yeah and it’s just

going to grow bigger fruit of that same

kind so with manipul in control it

really is someone who’s who’s

fearful that I’m not going to get what I

need I’m not going to get love I’m not

going to get whatever and

um that at least elicits some compassion

from us right doesn’t make it any more

pleasant but it elicits com compassion

and maybe helps us think a little bit

more about coming up with a

solution than just dealing with the

person right okay what does it look like

to love people without trying to change

them yet knowing that changing negative

patterns of behavior would be the best

thing for them yeah

um you know uh the the joke you know

woman’s praying for a husband and she

kind of has a Freudian slip you know and

she says God you love him while I change

him and the reality of it is if someone

I love and someone I assume loves me is

kind of committed pretty often to

strategies to change me it it’s really

pretty hard for me to feel good about

myself and I’m not

trusting uh the other players in the

game God yeah and that person yeah so I

you know I think it it’s never worked

well for John and I when he tries to

change me or I try to change him it’s

never worked well and God never actually

talks to me about anybody changing but

me when I pray he’s like you he doesn’t

ever talk to me about anybody else and

oddly when we allow God to change us uh

it’s pretty interesting how it affects

the other person because it changes the

pattern yeah right the dance they would

call it in some of the literature I love

that how do I identify and overcome

wrong beliefs I adopted in my childhood

if I operate in these

subconsciously right so they’re saying

it’s is a deep Deep River right

responding up here how do they and

that’s pretty much the how we operate

right you know whatever I love to talk

about it’s kind of my little hobby right

now studying the brain itself and one of

the biggest jobs the brain does is clear

your plate of what you don’t need to pay

attention to because attention’s a very

rich resource very expensive energy wise

and everything so what your brain does

is once you’ve done something enough

that it’s kind of become learned it sort

of packages it as a program it’s like

we’re not going to think about this

anymore and then it puts it in a

different part of the brain literally

it’s an autopilot and and what happens

is now it becomes um

you know stimulus response

reward but the problem is stimulus

response bad

result and but yet you keep doing it and

and kind of that’s that’s a really

really oversimplified way to say what

what we’re all up against what we’re all

up against is most unhealthy behavior in

our adulthood is behavior we learned to

survive childhood that we don’t need to

do anymore but we still do you know I

know for me when I ask God you know

what’s going on here and why am I doing

this why am I doing this why am I doing

this and I began to renew my mind when I

was ready to hear it he went to the very

root of the why and he kept saying it’s

not about why he said you can figure out

you spend your whole life figureing out

why you’re messed up Lisa you’ll still

be messed up once you know why he said

you need to know the truth to a greater

degree of intimacy than you’ve known the

lie and so I think a lot of times people

try to go back when they actually

haven’t put what they need deposited

what they needed in their life to go

forward right and so um I feel like God

can root out those subconscious things

if we take it to the Holy Spirit and

read the word of God and it renews our

mind and kind of what we’ve already

talked about the way you figure you know

like you said they’re subconscious so

you’re kind of not aware of them well

the way you become aware of them is by

what it causes in your life right well

you know for John and I John would say

why when we’re hugging are you the first

one to start padding and then push me

away and why do you like why do you

always pull away and he finally said to

me I’m not your dad and I looked at him

I said I know you’re not my dad and he’s

like but you’re acting like all men

leave and that one day I’ll leave you

and so you have this and I remember I

had to say he’s right but I was mad

because I didn’t know how to stop it so

when I got alone with God I said I need

you to begin to heal this and God

started to heal the wound between my

father father and I when he healed the

wound between my father and I it healed

the wound between my husband and I so

again it’s like the anger just trying to

change your response without going into

a deeper healing so we believe I had a

similar thing with my mother and wife my

my mom had a heart attack and I felt

like she manipulated my father with you

know well Leroy you better do XYZ or I

might die of a heart attack and uh so I

kind of took up an offense for my dad

against my mom but I also kind of made

like an inner vow that no woman’s going

to ever control me like that yeah and so

here I am married to this wonderful

woman that loves me and who has not had

a heart attack no and she and this is

early in our marriage and I’m I’m a

brand new Christian and I I would react

weirdly to her being assertive and

confident whatever and eventually what

God help me do is Trail it down to that

situation with my mom where I had just

decided no woman is going to control me

and she wasn’t trying to control me

right but I just overreacted and that’s

one of the ways you smoke these things

out when you know the Situation’s this

big your response is this big and you’re

like okay there’s something else going

on here it’s a trigger all right how do

I break iniquity or negative tendencies

in my

family oh my goodness all right

responsibility Authority and power yeah

if you’re the head of the house you have

a fair amount of responsibility if

you’re the third kid out out of six

ain’t your job yeah I know that for John

and I we realize going forward yeah

going forward we we were like now we’re

a new family going forward Absolut we’re

going to we’re going to rounce things

and move forward well the exciting thing

is we can by our choices by our actions

by our obedience we can change

multigenerational patterns right but to

go back is almost impossible yeah it’ll

make you crazy don’t do it okay we’re

almost done here last question okay what

if the other person is not in agreement

with my

boundaries I believe we can make

choices that honor our boundaries

without violating somebody else’s it’s a

tricky little tight RPP walk sometime

particularly like in a marriage or

something but if the key to boundaries

is responsibility yeah and I’m

responsible for everything inside my

personal space my circle then um the key

is to communicate enough to where you’re

taking responsibility for yours I’m

taking responsibility for mine and um

absolutely the other person may say I’m

good with the way we’ve always done

things I believe you can move toward

Health okay

and it’s a little tacky to say because

there’s people that I’m sure are in

tricky situations sure um you’re going

to benefit either way you’re going to

come out healthier and maybe with a

spouse that came with you or you’re

going to end up healthier with a spouse

who chose not to go with you okay but I

can promise you this if you do nothing

different nothing’s going to change

thank you so you end up not healthier

yeah and with a marriage it’s not

healthier so either way move forward

there’s some risk involved yeah sure

there always is yeah all well I hope

this has been so helpful I hope we’ve

been able to do a little bit of a deep

dive into the questions we love hearing

from you I know that you enjoyed the

session so these are just a little bit

more pointed chip thank you so much we

appreciate your time you’re amazing I’m

honored to have done