Bethel Church in Redding, CA, is a congregation rooted in the love of God and dedicated to worldwide transformation through revival. It’s our goal for God’s love to be manifest in signs, wonders, and miracles. The atmosphere at Bethel is charged with faith and exuberant joy, which manifests in all we do. We believe we’re on the edge of the greatest revival of all time. It’s our vision to see history become His-story as the kingdom of this world becomes the kingdom of our God. We welcome you to join us in this adventure!
uh jesus talks about healing ten lepers
only one
had enough character change to come back
and give thanks but the other nine were
still healed so does that disqualify
that as a work of god
the absence of fruit in their life no
the fruit was the healing
yeah the transformation is our response
to his work
[Music]
so hey bill let’s uh speak about
manifestations and just to define that
word it’s like the making plane of the
holy spirit or the making plane of
something
in general when something is shown so
when we say the holy spirit hits
somebody
we can see the holy spirit’s on it by
the manifestations by the behaviors that
come
would that be accurate yeah yeah there’s
there’s a response when you’re touched
by
power or by peace or by sadness or by
whatever there are physical responses
yeah and and yeah and so we got physical
responses and also behavior in action
you’re touched by love you bring grocery
to your neighbors you are exactly so
there’s a responsiveness to the presence
of god across the board that we would be
uh be looking into so sometimes folks uh
they’re wondering what so what are
manifestations we would say they’re
they’re assigned the lord’s on somebody
or at work and how do you know it’s the
person the holy spirit or the demonic
i’ve seen i’ve seen people shake for
example under the power of god
actually shake
i’ve seen them shake
because of a demon i’ve seen them shake
because they needed attention
and they all look the same
yeah they all look the same it’s the
fruit yeah
if you grade everything by the
manifestation
then you will accept some things that
are not necessarily right for example
somebody who’s pondering are they
are they deeply considering and praying
or are they
resisting what the holy spirit is doing
yeah it’s a manifestation but it’s
acceptable it’s an acceptable one
so
when you have someone who is resisting
the holy spirit and they’re in a quiet
posture
i can’t accept quiet posture because
it’s good in this case and it’s not good
here it’s the same with tears
it’s the same with uh joy it’s the same
with all these things it’s uh
uh the the uh i i can’t just have a list
and say well this is god and this isn’t
god because every one of them can be
counterfeited
it’s the this is the important part yeah
everything
yeah it’s the snake thing yeah you
mentioned you know so it’s like people
can go you can’t do that because it it
looks like something else and you’re
like oh well you know moses created a
snake and then soda pharaoh so like you
should have made the snake because
pharaoh can make the snake
you know other religions fast so we
shouldn’t fast other religions pray so
we shouldn’t pray in other words
shouldn’t sing praises so we shouldn’t
sing praises otherwise nations you know
practice and our religions practice
virtue so we shouldn’t i just it’s an
absurd
stance yeah it’s it’s because it looks
like something just uh therefore it
might be bad i’m like i don’t know how
you do anything or you know you know
live at that particular point but we’re
talking about the um
how do you know it’s a person so i mean
partly this we’ve been on a journey with
this as well as and i would say like
it’s always the person
at some level
it’s the holy spirit hitting a person
this is the same person who was there
five minutes before with all their
wounds and wonderfulness and all their
past experiences and their current
thoughts and so it it’s always the
person that that helped me at some level
because again that idea if it’s god it
has to be pristine
and without human defilement like
nothing in the bible except jesus
exactly
it looks like that so it’s always got a
human component or wrapped up in it
and um so that that part like it’ll
always be the person at some level and
sometimes it’ll be more than less and
when we teach people like hey listen
just be responsive you don’t don’t
overdo it i and and i ideally i i don’t
ever say fake it to make it you know we
never kind of go just practice it like
speak gibberish and you’ll start
speaking in tongues like that’s not our
way uh start manifesting and it’ll come
like it i i do
understand that people will use that
sort of thinking that’s not something we
teach or that i do at all no but it’s
like if it is a i will be responsive to
the least
touch of his presence exactly
yeah it’s it’s how how hungry are you
yeah i don’t want to hype i don’t want
to make anything up i want to respond to
him yeah you know i i don’t know why
we’re so shocked that we manifest when
he touches us
we should we’d be we should be shocked
that we don’t die when he touches us
you know i mean let’s let’s be honest
well
the all-powerful one
does something to a person’s life some
people say well i don’t sense anything i
just have peace
that’s not too bad yeah peace is amazing
there’s a whole lot of people who don’t
have inner people and they’re just they
live in mental turmoil the kingdom of
god is righteousness peace and joy
you’ve got a third of the kingdom right
there you’re doing pretty good yeah yeah
so it’s it’s uh i i don’t like uh i
don’t like um grading someone by their
manifestation you know that’s not good
either i don’t like well boy they were
so powerfully touched
let’s see how their life has changed
afterwards well and we try not to judge
our culture by who’s really anointed
who’s not through manifestations like
you know i
uh we don’t see a ton from from you all
the time or from chris or from you know
various ones and so it’s
it is not a sign and i’ve seen people
have a powerful manifestation of the
spirit and then make colossal mistakes
like just exactly quickly after so some
you know fruit is helpful but it’s not
always sometimes the fruit has been not
right after the fact it’s not beautiful
that’s the truth yeah so fruits um uh
because that that life of character that
ongoing relationship with jesus is
essential not this
i shook one time
at a uh you know at a bill johnson
meeting it’s like oh no if you live i
shook at the i i had a counter of joy at
a meeting like what’s the lord doing
today
what’s he saying today yeah
is partly how we need to kind of be
living
in ongoing connection with him
i i agree i really value what he does i
i just don’t think we always understand
what he’s doing yeah you know sometimes
it’s an extreme manifestation i mean i
love it when i see incredible power
and a person’s you know we see
people are so powerfully touched
you know or people who have never heard
in their life their deaf ears are open
in a in a power encounter our marriage
is healed these kinds of things i love
that but i i what i don’t want to do is
devalue the more subtle things that he
does
i’ve had i’ve had two
life-altering encounters with the lord
in my life the first one was over a
scripture that he opened up to me
every day of my life has been affected
since then it was very subtle there was
nothing dramatic
but i can say 40 some years later
i have never been the same since that
moment where he opened up scripture and
the other was a power encounter so it’s
it’s both
both are valuable
and this one happened to me first the
the very subtle but i it’s like moses it
says uh when he stepped aside the
burning bush when he stepped aside the
lord spoke
he stepped aside to what god was doing
and that’s when god unloaded on him and
and let him hear and see what he needed
to see
this subtle moment that i had with the
lord i stopped i could take you where i
was in the church facility in weberville
i can take it where i was i stopped i
turned aside and then he began to speak
and it’s affected every day of my life
very subtle wasn’t dramatic but i i
leaned into it and that’s what it
enlarged everywhere and so i have lived
in the light of that and in consistency
absolutely absolutely it’s affected how
i think it affects everything uh just
that just that one moment and so that
wasn’t a great power encounter in the
sense of you know trembling or falling
or
weeping or whatever
but okay so that most the church loves
the first one the subtle one from the
bible they love that
no you’re right they don’t like the
second one you know where you are hit
with the lightnings of the lord and what
felt like to you electricity it it’s
it’s as important yeah it’s as important
i
in october of 95 i had an encounter with
lord three o’clock in the morning and i
just you know you’re never the same
again you
it’s throughout the scriptures you know
where he encounters with somebody and
how they manifest it from time to time
is
is is completely different but the the
point is is they were touched by him and
their lives are never the same yeah we
got we have to value those things yeah
you have i mean um
you did a book defining moments where
you kind of just captured those the in
their own words the author’s
self-description from finney and from
wesley and various ones these sorts of
god encounters that had manifestations
and again
well there’s so much to say i mean we
are it’s interesting to me how that we
would love tears at the altar but
despise laughter at the altar it’s just
like wow that’s weird like that’s weird
that’s very human yeah yeah at some
level it makes us very uncomfortable and
there’s joy and working through the
psalms right now there’s tons of joy
and tons of joy yeah in his presence
this fullness of joy yeah you know
people where’s laughter in the bible
well is laughter a tiny part of joy
exactly
because it says in his presence as
fullness i have a theory like i think
it’s the the church is dumbing down of
joy we have made joy inner peace
and uh you know and it’s almost like we
it’s like no no it’s actually that it’s
that thing when your team wins the super
bowl is that like out of control you
know you do a summer soft salt off the
couch sort of joy
that this ecstatic place which is
actually quite marvelous you know if
you’ve ever had the privilege of having
your team win the super bowl but yeah
but this uh this human capacity for
choice is so much larger than
this inner this inner um satisfaction
that is quietly expressed it’s true it’s
true i i like to do i define
peace as quiet joy and joy as peace out
loud all right oh
beautiful you’re so pithy that’s the
yeah
and then also just say our bodies are
designed to
uh respond in some ways like we you know
if my wife’s mad at me which hardly ever
happens but i can feel like in my body
like somebody’s mad at me at some level
so we are we are designed like so if
we’re physically cold we shiver if we if
you know we we get hit by actual
physical electricity we you know we
shake so i mean like our bodies are
wonderful instruments to
discern what’s happening in the
environment discern what’s happening
internally and then be responsive to it
so the idea that the lord would hit us
physically super normal and um and all
through scripture yeah and unusually all
through scripture yeah again go look at
it under yourself it’s you just you will
find it everywhere the bible brothers
and sisters the bible is full of spooky
words
and scary stories i mean saul wants to
go kill david he sends a man to kill
david and he he walks through a bunch of
people who are prophesying
is hit by the power of the holy spirit
and is unable to go and fulfill
this this command this assignment to go
murder david yeah and he ends up
prophesying so saul gets fed up with him
and goes himself
i’ll kill him those prophets aren’t
going to impact me he
he’s on a murder assignment and he
goes into the into the environment the
atmosphere the area again people like
why is it the spirit here and not here
like i don’t know but saul and the bible
had this experience he’s he walks
through the area where the people of god
are prophesying an ecstatic prophecy and
he himself is
suddenly prophesying in ecstatic
prophecy so the people are saying that
is now is saul now numbered among the uh
the prophets yep yep that’s amazing the
guy who doesn’t want it hit by power and
again the fruit of his life he was
wasn’t permanently changed he actually i
think did dial back his pursuit of
trying to kill david for a while but but
uh but there was fruit but he didn’t
sustain he could have been here yeah he
certainly could have been yep but uh but
his response it’s that’s it is we have a
responsibility to steward how god
touches us what he does to us
the outcome is not guaranteed
you know
jesus talks about healing 10 lepers
only one had enough character change to
come back and give thanks but the other
nine were still healed so does that
disqualify that as a work of god
the absence of fruit in their life no
the fruit was the healing
yeah the transformation is our response
to his work and the one responded
that’s powerful yeah
so hey let the lord touch us with all
our heart soul mind body and strength
and then sometimes people have thought
what uh that
this idea how do you know it’s the holy
spirit versus another spirit a demonic
spirit some uh the internet again has uh
created uh something i’ve never heard of
the the or hadn’t really heard of the
kundalini spirit and somehow that that’s
in operation here
um
uh again i
i never heard of it until i was actually
i didn’t even know that’s another
another deal like that again you could
the the critic could say well you can’t
just because you’re ignorant doesn’t
mean it’s not true whatever else but the
the basic idea is a fallacy because it
looks like something else it is
something else and so again we’re
talking about the fruit of our life and
then this idea that we’re actually in
relationship with this divine being the
with the lord i’m talking about yahweh
the covenant god of the old testament
we’re in relationship with him so we are
not afraid and we know his voice my
sheep know my voice so yeah i i know
like this is this spirit of love and
truth and integrity this this being whom
i’m experiencing his presence at the
moment this is holiness this is perfect
goodness there’s no there’s no i don’t
wonder allow like might this be a demon
in those moments never uh it doesn’t
cross my mind because of the integrity
of the experience exactly that’s
happening so exactly
i think we’re supposed to learn to
recognize the presence of the holy
spirit just in our own personal life not
just in a ministry context but just in
life because when i learn to recognize
his presence it’s much easier for me to
discern
the authenticity of maybe somebody’s
testimony
maybe
the decision they’re about to make
maybe the manifestation of them
physically you can you start to
recognize him when he’s doing something
and it’s a lot easier i was in a
situation way back at the beginning
where i was surrounded by what appeared
to be chaos just because of the numbers
of people i closed my eyes so that i
could cancel out what i was seeing
and i and i became overwhelmingly
overwhelmingly aware
it’s the same presence of the holy
spirit that i experienced in my in my
worship time with the lord
and
and as long as i
wasn’t offended in my mind
by what i didn’t understand
i was anchored if you will i was i was
anchored in a recognizing
this is god and then i was able to
to then begin to respond more
positively appropriately towards what
was happening around me yeah and this is
just a portion of our walk with jesus
this isn’t in every meeting it’s not in
every devotional time it’s not in every
uh you know recession of school by any
stretch of imagination we have folks who
have profound physical experiences and
then don’t for a long time um or
you talk about turning aside there are
times when i i won’t have any but i’ll
get into a prayer ministry time when
suddenly i can experience his presence
physically
and emotionally in like a deeper more
dear way than kind of in my own quiet
time you know alone
um
and then i think they’re part of how do
you know it’s not the enemy we do ask
that like when we’re pastoring
environments so you’ve got to know how
to pastor the environment but i’ll see
some manifestations where i’ve kind of
walked up to people introduced myself
told them my role so that i have
authority and you know they’re not and
i’m not we’re not afraid of wrecking
what god’s doing when the lord’s in it
you’re not going to wreck it because i’m
not coming as a mocker or you know to an
accuser i’d be like hi i’m dan one of
the pastors here this looks very intense
what you’re experiencing
is this the lord
you know and then
sometimes they can they have told me
they’ve just nodded yes you know and um
because they can’t speak it’s so intense
experience like exactly and like so
you’re physically fine you’re not having
a stroke or anything and you know be
like yeah they’ll nod yes and i’m like
okay
other times i’ll talk with them and say
hey you know are you doing all right are
you scared and they’ll nod yes you’re
like do you feel is this the lord or the
demonic so we’re actually pastoring in
that moment that’s huge um and again i
don’t have to do it all the time because
all of our meetings are not nearly
anything like this but you do have to
have leadership in the environment and
some conversations happen in the moment
uh there and then some happen afterwards
like hey your response to the lord’s
presence is i know it’s meaningful to
you it’s incredibly distracting to the
rest of us so we’re going to need you to
to to dial in to cooperate with the holy
spirit in a way that actually doesn’t
distract from the meeting
you know at this time or that isn’t
drawing so much attention even though
your heart might not be to draw
attention that is what’s happening so
exactly it’s um in our in our culture
we’re not afraid to confront those sorts
of things as we need to so we’ll let
them go a little long like we’ll just
let them go a little longer i remember
one time we’re in a um
we’re in a a joy-filled meeting and um a
woman was on her knees she came to the
middle of the altar sorry the middle of
the aisle the center altar and she is on
her knees crying out it’s the blood it’s
the blood it’s the blood and worship’s
going it’s loud there’s joyous praise
everywhere but i remember that moment
thinking the
it wasn’t an act of praise that she was
involved in in that moment but i’m like
lord this could be you like she could be
the lone person we could all be in a
mode like it’s time to experience joy
let’s do our thing
and she could have been the lone person
actually like i’m this the lord’s i’m
interested in you prepondering my
sacrifice tonight i’m mentioning you
pondering the sacredness of myself
giving love so i’m listening and trying
to like how do you do it i don’t know
how to describe what i’m doing am i
trying to do more than my mind and more
than my taste more than my preference
and more than my emotions
and try to listen like lord is this you
are you on this young woman taking us in
a direction
so i just let her go on for a while now
other people were noticing but they saw
me like 10 feet behind her and they’re
like okay good leader a leader is paying
attention and um so then she i come up
and i say you know at the end my
discernment was like this isn’t what the
lord’s doing tonight and so i kind of
just sat down and introduced myself we
had a great conversation about what you
know what the lord was doing with her
and i kind of said it i love what the
lord’s doing um it it doesn’t seem to be
quite what’s corporately happening
so you know if you’d like to kind of
continue in this maybe uh just in a less
obvious place or less quiet in a more
quiet way yeah i’d love to facilitate
that or or it might be that your
assignment’s been done and and it’s time
to join the lord in praising for his
glorious sacrifice you know so just like
letting her process that’s beautiful
what she was up to in that moment that’s
beautiful and um and and not getting uh
not getting
kind of locked up and what are people
going to think and yeah and this is
exactly what the group’s doing and i i
just recommend that sort of benny has a
fun story i don’t know if you remember
where there was a
i’m going to take the time to tell the
story so as a young woman dancing in the
front in a somewhat provocative fashion
close to you during worship
yeah that was actually that was actually
my story oh yeah she was dancing in
front of me in a very strange way yeah
and i it got cold around me physically
cold and i
so i walked about 10 feet away
to see uh if that if the room was just
cold i got about 10 feet away and it was
normal i got back close to her i
remembered an experience that my brother
had in a
horrible spiritual time with his
ministry in san francisco and stuff
and it reminded me of his description of
that encounter
and so i went over to summer who is our
dancer
and i said summer i need you to dance
before the lord we need to break
something and then i turn to my wife and
i said honey i
i need you to pray for her.
and uh and literally the moment summer
began to dance before the lord this guy
collapsed right in front of me and it
was a
horrible demonic thing very
subtle but horrible she collapsed in
front of me
benny my wife leaned forward and began
to pray for her just brought her through
great deliverance into salvation and it
ended up being a very amazing thing but
it started by
not just visually uh what she was doing
it started because of a temperature
change interesting and and then it
reminds me of hebrews 5 have your senses
trained to discern good and evil that
there was actually something triggered
that seemed to be more biblical than my
experience was
historically yeah that that had never
happened before well and then the folks
who were that were part of that story
from the outside they were just offended
at what she was doing and that she was
so you know
sure so so much in your environment and
doing that so there’s a moment where we
didn’t act in utter response to that
offense but act actually acted in hey
let’s let’s uh move with spiritual
authority in this area and with kindness
in this order yeah there’s a redemptive
solution yeah so when’s the devil
you know it uh often times yeah no
that’s that’s that’s the truth
absolutely
so to be clear not everybody has to
manifest and not every denomination not
every church has to have these
manifestations going on that’s not what
we’re saying to be truly spiritual or
truly connected to god or truly
represent you got to do it like us
that’s
no no it’s just hunger for god let him
do what he does you know so we would say
everybody should be hungry i hope so
absolutely yeah absolutely
yeah you can’t have god offer something
that extreme that extravagant that
extraordinary and sit and do nothing you
know he welcomes us to come and to seek
him
he’s already here yes but to seek him
more diligently to set our face towards
him and to seek him more diligently it’s
a great privilege of life yeah so
cultivating the hunger and then
responding to his presence in the way
that he comes just with as much
authenticity as you can bring to that
yeah so the great revivals of the church
oftentimes had these manifestations of
various kinds and um we don’t we don’t
quite talk about them a lot we talk
about their fervent prayer but you can
go back into the record if it hasn’t
been sanitized or you know they haven’t
kind of changed the stories a little bit
and the old revivals are
full of unusual
signs and wonders manifestations of the
lord’s presence on the meeting on the
movement
you’re good yeah
the
denominations tend to
want to clean up the record of the moves
of god that they’ve experienced the
shantung revival in china is a great
example
um there is a book out on the shenternal
bible that will bore you to tears
because it tells you about all the
maybe outcomes of this these this number
this church this missionary but not the
process and the process is where god
radically touched this family radically
touched this church this child
and and it brought about incredible
fruit for his name
and uh and so there are two versions of
that book randy clark our dear friend uh
republished the book uh in the original
content so you can see what actually
happened and this is that’s dialogue
between missionaries of what’s happening
in their part of the world
and uh it’s extraordinary to see the the
the mighty outpouring wow the holy
spirit the cain ridge revival went on
for many many years and it was very
unusual but
but it was it was so powerful so
legitimate and oftentimes what happens
is these great moves of god
they have a an offensive element to it
that’s that always seems to be the case
the lord does not mind offending it
no he doesn’t
uh
one one of our
friends from years ago said uh he will
offend your mind to reveal your heart
and that happens so much but these these
great moves of god they will actually so
position society and culture to advance
in the years following the revival that
really really is quite extraordinary the
real transformation takes place so
it’s a glorious thing but
but it doesn’t do any of us favors to
whitewash history to to
until it looks like what we want it to
look yes it’s just not honest no
beautify
that’s been part of the journey i
mentioned like discovering that
spiritual discernment wasn’t just
my taste or past experience
like those really feel very similar
inside what i my taste what i prefer and
my past experience does like i discern
brother that’s the devil so i have to be
really cautious
well
and it’s an arrogant position it’s like
well ouch build it yeah
well i’m getting better for all of us
i’m talking about me come on
where you look at something and you go
well that can’t be god and basically the
judges he didn’t do it to me first so
why would he do it to you yeah yeah
absolutely it’s just a poor standard of
judging things yeah so look at look back
at past revivals find the find the first
sources if you can and not the later
ones where each other they were
sanitized and by sometimes we we took
out the spooky stuff the unusual stuff
that isn’t quite in the scripture but
not forbidden from scripture you know
and but unusual experiences
and almost always in every greek
movement of god there have been these
experiences which is true so what about
if you come from a church though that
doesn’t like you know there’s lots of
traditions i i was i came from a
non-charismatic church and
and um so you know always wanted the
lord to do whatever he wanted but you
know i was just taught that this is what
church is like and this is what’s normal
and yet you know we were hungry for the
lord and we would have said we were
hungry for the lord some of us more
hungry than others you know at some
point sure but you have a sense of like
why some churches move uh have
experiences of these manifestations and
other places don’t
i don’t know i think the risk element is
a part of it so if you don’t like risk
you probably won’t yeah yeah
usually i mean the lord can cross the
line and
and touch you anywhere you want
it’s all through scripture you know
um but typically typically our hunger
precedes a great outpouring not always
not always but typically hunger
or hunger for more just that realization
there is so much more to walking with
jesus than what i know
and i’m just hungry and there are
a whole school that would throw up
alarms at that point and say you have to
be careful for deception but jesus made
that pretty clear he said you know
he’s not going to give you a stone
instead of bread he’s not going to give
you a scorpion instead of a fish he’s
not going to
you’re not going to pursue him and then
have him trick you and allow you to get
into a
deceptive thing unless you’ve got
personal issues that you’re unwilling to
repent of then of course there are other
factors completely outside community and
can’t have can’t have any interaction
exactly you know with them sometimes
that’ll happen so yeah the other um you
know maybe why doesn’t happen is
sometimes we you know you kind of get
what you teach like we
we don’t we used to have more public um
uh public prophecy accompanied with
tongues because we would teach on it yes
we were smaller we had a microphone
up at the front forward right and people
would take the risk and they’d they’d
speak to us i feel like the lord’s
saying this and then they would jump up
but we don’t know now we have church
full of visitors we can’t quite take the
risk in our main meetings it doesn’t
make sense to we don’t know everybody
that’s in the room
um so we and we don’t teach into that so
when you don’t teach something you kind
of don’t get it yeah at some point so
that’d be part i would say part of what
happens
my own experience too is i i as being a
you know kind of a not very charismatic
leader in a charismatic church in the
early 90s here i
i just found that my comfortable like
first of all i didn’t know what the
anointing was like the idea of the
anointing like i really didn’t have a
grid for it it wasn’t something we
talked about
um we if we did it was purely emotional
like that you just that’s a code word
for your your an emotionless you know
your new emotions
um but i remember like i was
uncomfortable leading my people in
anything i couldn’t sustain
so like if i get super hungry
i might not be super hungry in three
weeks
wow so like i’m not i don’t want to take
you to the edge and go i actually can’t
follow through with that so i i i stuck
with my skills
with my gifts what i knew that i could
do for the lord’s glory like why venture
into some place that i’m not comfortable
yeah i i’m totally depend on the lord to
show up you know i can actually prepare
a pretty decent sermon even if he
doesn’t show up i’m not being critical
but i mean like you know it’s from the
bible it’s accurate everybody can go
amen but i i remember some of the the
signs and wonders and the manifestations
they were uncomfortable to me as a
leader hey i’m not throwing a rock at
any leader i’m telling you my own story
is like i was like i don’t i can’t
sustain this so i don’t know
i’m afraid to move into it and uh
aggressively so that might be something
that some of our our leaders are like i
don’t i’ve never been trained in this
and i’ll tell you going through bible
school and stuff i wasn’t trained in
this how to lead a meeting in faith
how to experience holy spirit and power
you know um you know how to prophesy
these were not these were not seminary
classes on how to prophesy
but you know when i first came here i
must say see peter wagner i took a
couple classes from him yeah and it’s
fuller and i you know i did yeah i
didn’t get
some insight into that when i first came
you remember
certain things began to happen yeah
within a short period of time yeah i
know
and and alan ray one of our key guys on
staff came to me privately he said you
know he said we want to help you pastor
this
but we’re learning at the same pace as
the people yeah
can we meet privately yeah and i thought
brilliant idea so i brought a team down
from weberville and hayfork and
and met in uh yeah in a home yeah and
then our teams just prayed for and all
all that happened was the presence of
god showed up the power of god showed up
in a very
wonderful way yeah and it just put our
lead or our staff yeah you know two
weeks ahead of everyone else yeah and
that’s all we need yeah
it was just
maybe like two
[Laughter]
that’s the point is it it gave us a
point of reference together where
literally we’re learning together you
have to you have to become a novice to
grow
uh you know jesus
he said i’m so glad you didn’t reveal
these things to the educator to the wise
the lord that you reveal it to babes and
sometimes you have to become childlike
to really get what god is saying what
he’s doing and that’s what happened to
all of us
as we were reduced
positively to being charlie