Bill Johnson and Bethel Associate Pastor and Dean of BSSM Dann Farrelly discuss Bill’s belief that Jesus Christ is Perfect Theology.
i’ve got to explore what’s possible in
my lifetime i got to know i’ve got to
know
i’ve got to know what’s possible in my
lifetime
by by following this one who became a
man
still god but became a man to set an
example that could be followed
[Music]
we talk about this we have a phrase
jesus is perfect theology
um uh
william syre who is the editor of
christianity today he said the fabulous
quote he says jesus is the kind of god
god is
now you got to think about it i put it
on a t-shirt from my singles group it
didn’t work because
you had to look at the t-shirt too long
and it was inappropriate so i was like
what
some quotes speak to you not to
everybody
but that helped me understand that jesus
is perfect theology is jesus is the kind
of god you want to know what god cares
about what his priorities are yeah what
his when when he’s when he’s saying i
you know i don’t like sin but i’m not
going to prioritize judgment in this
moment you need to see with the woman
called adultery you need to see that who
god is in those moments so you want to
speak to this idea that
what do you mean when you’re saying
jesus is perfect theology
well he is the perfect manifestation of
the father because he’s god because he’s
eternally god absolutely let’s not mix
that up
no he never stopped being god never took
it very completely never set it aside no
eternally god but as
as god
in the flesh he illustrates the father
yeah i mean
it you know is there a greater mystery
of how jesus can be 100 god and 100 mad
fully god fully man i i don’t know i i
think the church has wrestled with that
one for 2000 years because it’s and we
end up basically saying if we overstate
it we might say heresy so we just kind
of don’t overstate it and yeah we just
hang out here
yeah i
yeah i don’t want to do that i don’t
i want to stay
anchored in the word
but i don’t want to stay anchored
against people’s fears or suspicions i
i’ve got to explore what’s possible in
my lifetime i got to know i’ve got to
know yeah i’ve got to know what’s
possible in my lifetime
by by following this one who became a
man
still god but became a man to set an
example that could be followed and he
illustrated the father perfectly jesus
said if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the
father so in other words he was saying
you know old testament i love the old
testament by the way i love the old
testament
but the old testament did not reveal god
as the father
in the way that jesus did no i think
it’s only in there like there’s 16
verses or something in the whole old
testament yeah and it’s what what was
revealed there is powerful profound and
necessary absolutely but it set the
stage for the ultimate revelation
jesus came is my conviction
obviously jesus came to die
he came to
uh you know to destroy the works of the
devil yes
all of that
but he his
his primary purpose in coming i think
was to reveal the father
he came to reveal something that had
never been clearly seen before so when
you see
jesus with a woman caught in adultery
it’s a father-daughter moment
who of us as dads
would not do the same thing if our
daughter was in trouble we would stand
there with that daughter
against the opposition of the crowd
could care less what anybody thinks i’m
here for my girl i’m here for my group
and that’s what you see in that moment
you see jesus representing the father so
powerfully so purely so beautifully not
excusing sin not ignoring but still just
letting kindness
lead to repentance you know that’s the
standard and that’s that’s the father
jesus displayed the father
and that i feel is our responsibility
yeah we’ve got to to learn how to do the
same thing we’ve got to somehow find a
way to manifest what he’s like
yeah that’s that’s that’s that’s why we
followed this one who was perfect
theology absolutely yeah he was uh
absolutely jesus came to die for our
sins and conquered the power of death
but actually revealing that he is our
father and when that yahweh
is abba yeah
that’s revolutionary and that’s a
journey like i think all christians
they’ll be delighted if they’ll take if
they’ll take that journey
that the yahweh the old testament
doesn’t cease any of those things he is
in the old testament the creator the
perfect judge yes uh truth itself but
that
wonderful and wild louis would call him
the judge of the rightful judge of the
earth is actually dad
yeah that changes everything everything
everything papa god
romans 8 the whole abba father thing
yeah that’s it we teach on that that
twice paul had to say um abba pater so
he’s
it’s written in greek but he uses the
aramaic abba
this kind of term of endearment of for
god as father and and kind of says i got
to use abba even though i’m writing to
greek speaking people in greek
i can’t lose abba it it speaks
it has that daddy a certain the french
would say a certain genocide you know
you just kind of need the word and it
feels like that’s the way uh paul used
it i would say because that’s the way
the the church that he was birthed you
taught him to pray
that they taught him to pray
daddy father but you know not father
because we don’t quite mean what the
greek mind thinks about father you’ve
got to have this aramaic
this daddy component and they go
together
so that absolutely the primary
revelation of jesus and i think that’s
his revolutionary teaching when you when
you look at this thread i’ve seen
peaking out of the old testament yeah
i’m actually going to not stop talking
about it
i’m going to drive you crazy with my dad
my dad your dad you’re like
if you call a model one more time i’m
gonna kill you i mean in some ways they
did
they did it like your familiarity with
god yeah it’s revolting to us that
that’s true you know so
that was part of i think what the
resistance to his message is it’s like
you you’re not allowed to think of god
that
that familiarly wow she’s like yeah yeah
i am and so were you
wow that’s well
beautiful
so is there anything else you want to
add about jesus being perfect theology
though as far as like uh maybe it’s
thinking about healing and how we think
about healing
yeah i i think
here’s my approach and i realize there’s
there’s great diversity and the peop
even the people that i that i run with
we have wonderful conversations but uh
my approach is that is that jesus
modeled what life could be like
for anyone who had no sin
and who was empowered by the holy spirit
no sin
and empowered by the holy spirit because
he he he became a man
now if he did all of his miracles as god
obviously i’m still impressed i’m not
offended i i’m there on the sidelines
cheering
but if i discover he did them
as the son of man
then i realized he has just set a
standard
that not only can i follow i must i must
follow i i cannot stay where i am
i i may stink at it my entire life but i
don’t have the option the luxury
of lowering his commission to what i’m
good at yeah i i am compelled to pursue
this example that he provided for me and
that is a relationship with the father
through the holy spirit a relationship
with the father where he knew what he
was to do you know he said i only do
what i see my father do i only say what
i hear my father say so he models a
relationship with the father god papa
god
he models a relationship and in doing so
picks up mud puts it on the eye in doing
so
tells the woman in adultery sin no more
in doing so he does all these different
things revealing what he’s like
and if he does that and and i look at
him as as the ultimate example of
theology revealing the
father then i i owe him the rest of my
life to follow that example regardless
of how successful i am or unsuccessful
i don’t have the luxury of changing the
standard yeah we talk about this in the
great commission right to go
and teach them everything i’ve commanded
you exactly baptizing them and teaching
them everything i’ve commanded you so
when we
he commanded the the prayer for the sick
and the healing of the sick and the the
ongoing relationship of the lord and
prayer life that is actually
somewhat conversational and and then uh
in john as the father sent me i send you
again i think that’s partly the ministry
of reconciliation but in that ministry
of reconciliation sometimes the
prophetic word
uh you know it happens um
uh the
the miracle of healing happens and uh
you know sometimes
not being healed you know happens you’re
like what am i gonna do now god will i
follow you still so that we we in in
that moment we are still inviting people
to be reconciled to the lord just as he
did and signs and wonders and prophetic
words and are all ways of kind of
inviting people into that reconciliation
that he’s that he’s longing for yeah
exactly that’s right that’s right we
we owe the world
that example we we owe them our best
effort if i can reduce it to that we we
owe them our best attempt
at representing him well making sure
that when there’s breakthrough he gets
the credit yeah not us absolutely and
when it doesn’t work
i take the responsibility i i don’t i
don’t
accuse him i don’t accuse the people
i’ve ministered to it’s i’m going to
take it personally not in a position of
condemnation or guilt but you know what
every time i prayed for someone that was
healed
it showed what god could do
every time they weren’t healed it
revealed what i can do okay
and so that’s the way you process the
unanswered prayer in that particular
moment rather than create a theology uh
based on
yeah sometimes we think like if the
lord’s in it it’ll go perfect i’m like
what have you read the bible
it’s not
like if healing’s really from god
everybody get healed like no no i mean
god’s really in my marriage but
it ain’t perfect you know it’s really in
my messages but
those messages aren’t perfect and
there’s this odd thing that we apply to
healing or prophecy that we don’t apply
anywhere else i mean god’s involved in
the world for his purposes to well put
in an angle and perfect
[Music]
so i’m not sure why that standard has
been applied yeah you know to to healing
yeah
so when i’m reading the gospel of john
the whole time jesus doing miracles is a
kind of a an example if the kingdom has
come
they would draw attention they would
bring people to a point of decision yes
in that moment because even if you’re
healed it’s like did you go back and
thank him
the leper right so he’s like the miracle
wasn’t the thing it was the relationship
and so the miracle led to the the
gratitude leads to the connection and so
in our heart the miracle is not the
thing that it’s a it’s a tool
of revealing who god is and then
inviting reconciliation and connection
exactly is that
and so i i would agree with that i do
think in the way john wrote his gospel
that there he’s got those seven signs
that he highlights right when i look at
those miracles the way john wrote about
him sometimes i i think that he’s trying
to reveal i am messiah i am the anointed
one and i’m not sure the jewish mind
kind of knew that the anointed one was
actually the second person of the
trinity it kind of like we came to
understand
the divinity of the messiah as christ
unfold and the disciples kind of were on
that journey too they’re they’re like
that the idea that good jewish boys
monotheists worship jesus while he’s
alive
is mind-breaking at some level that they
were moved to worship a man whose mama
traveled with them or they knew
that’s an amazing journey that they’re
on when they move our move to worship
jesus
so but but in john i think that some of
those miracles are
they’re not just do the same miracles as
me but i am who
i am the messiah you’ve been looking for
would you agree with that that there’s a
revelation and especially in the way
john works on his miracles that reveal
the role of jesus and ultimately his
divinity yeah absolutely absolutely
jesus
at one point in john 10 i think it is he
says
you know if you don’t believe me believe
the miracles
he wasn’t saying the miracle is a
greater reality he was saying listen if
you’re struggling with me look at what
i’ve done because it’ll bring you back
to me and i’ll point you towards the
father
you understand the connection there it’s
like he would direct their attention it
almost sounds uh offensive in scripture
if you don’t believe me believe
believe the miracle but that’s what he
was saying he says look at what’s been
done
it will direct you back to me yes and i
will direct you to the father because
i’m only doing what i see the father do
and it’s the whole reconciliation thing
again he was always trying to connect
people
to the father that was it he was always
trying to bring reconciliation
absolutely yeah just think about john as
well you get that weird one where you
can have a man born
blind
who is healed
and yet i think it’s john 9 there
they’re like no we’re not sure you’re
the guy the parent’s gonna go no no he’s
that guy
and
but we don’t want to get in trouble we
don’t get kicked out of synagogue so he
can speak for himself but if you don’t
want to see a miracle you won’t see a
miracle at some point
or you’ll attribute to the the devil
which is what they ultimately do yeah um
is saying that’s by the power of the
devil just this crazy moment of
of of resistance to a supernatural
experience of the lord yeah you see it
in john 12 when the father spoke and
part of the crowd said no that was
thunder another crowd said no that’s
angels talking to jesus it’s like it’s
like
one one group thought it was a natural
phenomenon yeah another thought it was
supernatural but it wasn’t for them yeah
it was for jesus yeah yeah and yet jesus
heard the father clearly
and as you read it further in the
chapter you see they were they were
predisposed towards unbelief they
already had that point of resistance in
them and it was the resistance i think
yeah it was the resistance in their
heart that translated the phenomenon
into a natural event or impersonal
supernatural moment and then john under
the inspiration of the spirit years
later is kind of saying i got to tell
you this story about a god encounter
that
in the moment was interpreted three
different ways yeah yeah exactly like so
sometimes we think oh no that er when
god moves everybody knows it like
no i it doesn’t work that way i wish it
did
it’d be super convenient yeah i wish i
wish it did it’s kind of the tender and
heart that i will go that’s the lord
yeah that’s the lord in that moment so
that’s we’re trying to cultivate that
tenderness
you know just something as simple as
like i i have kind of a natural
disposition to not believing things
partly being connected to you i think i
was raised with doubt like doubt will
protect you dan you know you know and
i’m like i was raised in the church
where it’s supposed to be about faith
but somehow doubt became my baseline
protector of truth so it’s been a
journey to kind of like reach for faith
right before i reach for doubt
it because it was just so woven into my
christianity into my upbringing so i’m
trying to hear a miracle story and go
okay yes i’m having difficulty believing
that
but it’s a trustworthy person eyewitness
testimony you know i’m like i’m gonna
tell me more you know and then i’m
like in our environment like with
somebody say i’ve been healed of cancer
we’ll we’ll ask we’re like were you
under a doctor’s care and be like yes
and i’m like well
don’t leave that out of the story
because that that the intervention of
the lord in medicine through somebody
who gives their life to medicine or life
to cancer research like that’s beautiful
yeah i put that in the story too but but
the bigger story is just trying to reach
for faith instead of doubt as a
self-protection has been a journey i’ve
been on with you that i’m thankful for
because i think as a raised in western
education i was raised in the school of
doubt
and and
it’s just the way it works
i i’d be listening to guys in chapel i’m
19 right i’m in 1920 and i’m like you’re
right you’re wrong these are men or
women that have spent their whole life
on the mission field and i’m like 20
thinking nope wrong you’re not anointed
i don’t even know if i thought of people
being anointed more right or wrong at 20
i was either right or wrong in the
christianity i was raised in and so when
i think about like how oh just the
arrogance or that parsing up
christianity based on right or wrong
it was that
school of doubt that i was raised in and
uh it’s been a journey to kind of like
take the best of that
you know like if the emperor’s naked
somebody needs to go the dude has no
clothes on like there’s got to be some
people in the environment that’ll do
that
but but take the the good parts of that
because the lord’s given us our minds
but also to say no no i got to reach for
faith like the lord’s good he does good
things
his people he’s on the move
what is he up to and um and just to be
able to kind of go so that’s what i try
not to go unbelievable or like that’s
incredible which means unbelievable
right at some level so i’m like trying
to be a little bit more even in my first
words like bless the lord
because i’m here to because i’m hearing
miracle testimony