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but there are but there are people that

would teach on predestination different

than i would

some would exaggerate

another point but the point is i’m not

afraid of them speaking to our people

it’s important for us to have exposure

to the body of christ who completely

loves jesus

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so one of the things that was unusual

when i first started working for you was

your

you would let people teach on things

that we didn’t quite hold to

and

and i was raised in a tradition where

the pastor would kind of step up to the

stage sometimes or the next sunday would

kind of do a rebuttal or

a fix it you know we had a guy that said

um

what y2k was gonna totally up and end

everything we should put a tent city

down on our baseball field and so you

know we have all that and we’d already

had this prophetic word from chris it

was actually one of the first big

prophetic words chris gave that i’m like

dude that’s man you’re stepping out

there he’s like y2k’s going to come to

nothing i’m like really that is not what

most of the prophets are saying but we

had this guy give

talk on the stage and then when i was

there we had a guy i won’t mention his

name but he church was supposed to be

over at 12 15.

he preached an offering message until 12

15 and then kept us there until two and

i remember sitting across the aisle

looking like bill

go tell him to shut up i mean

go save us from this guy you know he he

keeps talking so

your

your capacity to like let people have

their ministry was uncomfortable for me

where does that start how do you how do

you think through that um you know even

sharing the stage with people or giving

people your stage you don’t agree with

everything and then how far do you let

that go maybe some of those things

there’s a great difference between being

in a disagreement with somebody

and them being in heresy and not

everything you disagree with is heresy

and so heresy free would be the major

the kind of the creeds of the church

yeah it’s opposed to the creed of

scripture you know uh the blood of jesus

is symbolic it’s you know that’s sort of

that’s that’s heresy no i i won’t i

won’t tolerate anything trying to say

that jesus didn’t really die before sins

exactly exactly if uh those who believed

that i wouldn’t i wouldn’t give them 10

seconds yeah i understand that but there

are but there are people that would

teach on predestination different than i

would

some would exaggerate

another point but the point is i’m not

afraid of them speaking to our people

it’s important for us to have exposure

to the body of christ who completely

loves jesus yeah and i learned that

value system from my dad

he would he would so celebrate anyone

who who loved the holy spirit

who was just this worshiper this lover

of god they were backed by integrity and

character their prayer lives were

powerful and he would bring these people

in to minister to us this is you know 40

some years ago and uh and they would

differ from week to week and the

illustration they used often use often

is uh one week he brought in a catholic

priest

to speak on a sunday morning and the

very next sunday a baptist evangelist so

you can’t get too

different than than those two

perspectives they were in heresy they’re

both jesus christ and him crucified

totally you know they’re both they’re

both love god with all of their hearts

and they’re they’re doing their best to

serve us as a group of people it doesn’t

mean i’m going to celebrate everything

they say

but i for me the priorities i get to

celebrate who they are

and then i get to decipher

through

my view of scripture what it is that i

need to learn from them so

aren’t you afraid though that sometimes

if we give somebody a podium that

they’ll go i get interested and then i

read their other book and it was like oh

we don’t we don’t like the other book or

something like that do

you get worried that that’ll happen

sometimes no

how come

anyone who’s really with us

is going to have a steady diet of what

god gives to us okay

and

they’re they’re not going to not going

to deviate i’ve had this happen for

years this i had this happen in

weaverville as well i’d bring somebody

and and i could tell they were touching

on something that that the church was

was

wondering you know yeah yeah what has

bill done and they’ll i could feel their

eyes will look at me

and if i’m if i’m sitting there in peace

they’re fine

they’re fine and so what i’m wanting is

i’m wanting people to learn

to live out of rest out of a place of

peace in the middle of disagreement

not because we think alike

but because we are we all embrace the

spirit of christ to love and to honor to

humble ourselves and to to celebrate to

celebrate god what god is doing

and uh so i i have been exposed through

the years to so many people that that i

disagreed with it was uncomfortable for

me too yeah it wasn’t but

but it’s not

it’s not

it’s not fatal

yeah it’s not final i

it’s it’s an education

it’s an opportunity to do

everybody says we’ve got to be united

well here’s your chance to display it

yeah

so and that for me yeah that’s the

higher lesson the higher lesson is

how are we going to respond to this

disagreement

are we going to respond with the

character of christ can we still love

and be devoted to a person i’m going to

take a love offering for him can he

still be generous because of who he is

or who she is instead of

you know what they don’t agree with with

us

and so that’s a huge part for me is is i

want

i want more than just our agreement with

a lesson i want our agreement with with

the fact that they’re devoted to jesus

and they deserve our honor yeah and you

early on we’re saying like you’re

you that the people of god are our sheep

that’s certainly a metaphor but that

also that you’re we’re trained for

battle as well so that yes the capacity

if we only have the sheep metaphor keep

me safe give me places you know good

clean food good clean water we’ve missed

the other metaphors of scripture whereas

actually we’re supposed to love god with

all our mind that we are in a spiritual

battle

that we are supposed to think we’re

supposed to be thinkers and i would say

the other deal is that when you if you

can’t get along with your brothers and

sisters in christ and then you try to go

out into the world and to work with a

muslim you know

or an atheist it’s you don’t have the

you don’t have the faculty for it if you

are just so freaked about who’s kind of

coming into your environment that’s true

that’s one of the ways is we’ve been

able to kind of

how i don’t raise the bar of maturity in

our environment it toughens us up it

does it’s confusing though too i mean

for people who want church never to be

confusing that that’s not us

no

sorry about that i know yeah we can

choose ourselves i’d be confused

sometimes so like it that is part of the

deal when you’re trying to think and

innovate and move ahead um and also be

faithful to scripture or you do get into

some interesting spots like yeah yeah

that’s true so

a little bit it sounds like we have kind

of the council culture now and we have

this political spirit i won’t share the

stage with you because that tacitly says

i agree with you and i’m canceling you

and and so this is a way that you work

against that yeah absolutely that

political spirit and that cancer that

cancel culture that we’re kind of seeing

but you’ve been doing it for a long time

it’s not new yeah

i actually learned it from my dad i

learned it back uh it’d be 47 48 49

years ago so

that’s that’s when i saw i saw him

illustrated

and i saw these people because these

speakers would come in because i was my

dad’s son who was the pastor i would go

out to dinner with them i would be in my

parents home when these people were

there and i could see the genuineness of

their love for god and their love for

people

and so it’s like what they said that i

didn’t quite understand or agree with

just dissolved

just it dissolved under the weightiness

of the character of christ

now

i think you know this about me but i

mean i’ve certainly had conversations

with people that have spoken in the

school that like you’re you’re more

gracious and maybe won’t address it but

i’ve had a couple times said hey that

thing you teach about hell

we’re not fans

i mean like if you could not like i love

what you’re bringing here

that’s not for us yeah um so i mean like

i’ve made those sorts of distinctions

with some people that have come

where we can kind of clearly say you are

you’re

in a doctrine like of that size not one

of the biggies that we’re in a different

so please don’t coach our folks up in

that yeah and i think good speakers will

come and say is there anything i should

stay away from and it’d be like yeah

yeah that thing you do here

uh that’s not great now i love what you

say because you’re like be cautious of

bringing somebody in to be themselves

and then controlling them when they come

in right so those are the two things i

try to hold in balance like giving a

clear message and not trying to control

the speaker but i i think it’s i think

that’s wisdom i don’t have a problem

i’ve i’ve had it done to me i’ve i went

to a church once in the uh on a sunday

morning the pastor said i didn’t know

what you what you did or i wouldn’t have

asked you to come

i’m there for like three for like three

years

no

he said i didn’t know what you did i

wouldn’t have had you come and i said i

said okay i said

tell me what it is you don’t want me to

do yeah or what you don’t want me to

speak on and i am happy and i told him i

said i’m here for you

i’m here for you

i’m not here for the people yeah i mean

obviously i’m going to serve yeah yeah

my primary role is for you so you tell

me what you don’t want me to do you tell

me what you don’t want me to speak on

and i will

honorably do whatever you say it’s

beautiful and he was just silent for c

mike forever but it’s probably only a

minute he finally just looked at me he

said

all right do whatever you want

but i i would have zero problem yeah

with uh with confining my message my

you know the ministry things whatever

that he would object to it’s no problem

there’s no problem there’s so much of

christ that you can do

you know absolutely yeah so it’s not a

problem and that’s something we tell

some of our younger ministers even a

beginning question like is there

anything that you would rather not

address with your congregation and so

it’s just a way of humbly kind of uh

yeah submitting to the leader because

like i said we’re there to serve that

leader

and uh to make that leader look like a

genius in front of the eyes of his

people like if we roll in and undermine

their leadership we’re not helping the

body of christ exactly no that’s right