Bill Johnson sits down with Michael Brodeur from for their Apostolic Voices MasterClass. This is part four of five, in which Michael and Bill discuss the relationship between apostles and prophets, and the importance of living generationally.

couple of other questions and along

those lines obviously

these two gifts apostle and prophet

were sort of paired together somehow in

ephesians 220

that there’s something uh you know a

little bit of a partnership

i i have this little phrase that i’ve

said sometimes that uh

you know a prophet without an apostle

will build a fantasy

an apostle without a prophet will build

a factory but the two together can build

a family

like there’s something about the the


of that person who sees the blueprint

wants to build a the person who has sort

of an ear open to heaven and is

you know kind of interacting how do you

see those two gifts working together

because right now

i’m concerned that you know we have

apostles gathering over here prophets

gathering over here

the interface between them seems limited

and we had all the prophets that you

know spoke up during the election time

and that was odd and

you know there’s challenges there how do

you see those two

coming together and really being teamed


um well first of all it’s essential

and it is a relational issue and

what happens is you find people that

have discovered

the sobering call of god on their life

and they tend to want to protect that


there has to be a yielding for merging

because there is a complex you described

it very well the prophet and the apostle

what each of them bring to the table

that together they actually bring

a greater significance out of the other

when they are yoked together correctly

when it’s a relationship of honor then

they actually bring out the apostle

brings out

strength to the prophet that he’s not

going to get otherwise and the prophet

brings out a strength to the apostle

he’s not going to get otherwise you know


it’s like both are absolutely essential

and complementary

and so we’ve gotta we’ve got to fight

fight to protect the to protect the

relational component

because that’s you know it’s it’s again

our father it’s family

kingdom is family and so the apostle and


has to be the best model of that this is

how we deal with conflict this is how we

deal with uh you know conflicting ideas


or different perspective on our ministry

responsibility whatever it might be

this is we do this thing together and

uh and what’s more important to me let’s

say that you and i are the apos the

apostle prophet

what’s more important to me is our

connection and that we do this together

more than i accomplish all my wildest


you know i i believe in vision i believe

in the dreams but

it’s all meant to be done in the

relational context

moving at the speed of family

is you know something i’ve seen here you

know that in the decade i’ve been

a part of this church and seen what you

guys have built it’s just

so amazing to see even in moments of

disagreement or conflict how you guys

have covenanted

for outcomes that are relational

you know share a little bit about that

with us you know obviously

not too much detail but yeah well yeah

it’s it’s

it’s not complicated if you value people

more than ideas

if you value people then your

your default is going to be to protect

to protect what’s important if you value

your relationship

your default your your energy your focus

your prayer your

efforts are going to be focused on

protecting that relational component and

but if you’re just an idea person if

you’re just a person that

that that somehow has to always

there are people who are driven and

there are people who are focused driven

people get in trouble

as far as i’m concerned focus is what

we’re supposed to be

and if we can be focused then we make

sure that we bring all the elements that

jesus intended

into the vision and not leave them

behind so i can accomplish a vision

wow so i don’t know if that makes sense

no i mean it does to me

and well you know let’s expand that

let’s expand that a little bit because

you know you’re part of a gathering of

apostolic leaders that

you know called revival alliance and uh

many of them received sort of a a fresh

touch from the lord

at toronto in the first few years of

that outpouring

and um and yet you guys have kept a

friendship you’ve kept a relationship

you do

a lot of co-workership um talk about

that you know how does

how does that interface because you’re

not all identical i mean you all have


you know emphases and different points

of view and but you also

are carrying a certain set of common uh


how do you guys partner together how

does that work

oh it’s just the greatest privilege ever

you know

to to pour out for me to pour out who i


to benefit somebody else and their


their network of churches their leaders

their conferences whatever it might be

what a privilege to do what i can do to

make sure that they’re more successful

and they in turn have done the same for

me we

we considered a privilege to not form

one big organization out of the whole


yeah another denomination i i mean i

guess it could be fine but we’ve chosen

not to do that we instead we’ve chosen

let’s do what we can to help the other

person succeed

let’s just use our gifts and in the way

you know what i’m with randy many times

a year

so i want to do what is most helpful for


i don’t have an agenda except to be a

strength to him

with john and carol with uh you know uh

heidi roland and heidi and george and

winnie you know chains

the whole group um that’s it i mean i

was just with jake up a weeks ago

i’m just there i’m just there to help


you know i just want to be a strength to

him that’s all and

and that that is the relational

component we do have

we we take time every year uh just to

rest together

we take a few days off just to go

somewhere and we hang out by the pool

and talk we pray for each other we

you know that’s what we do we go out to

dinner it’s pretty simple agenda

it’s just to make sure that each other’s

healthy and strong and and that’s what

friends do

yeah that’s probably unique in the

history of the church that there would

be this amazing

sort of uh group of friends that share a


of a common encounter with with god

that’s true that you guys have kind of

touched the lord in a similar way

as one another but at the same time

you’ve now

been called to different kinds of


and uh it’s really interesting to see

because actually you know during this

particular master class

you know we have you sharing and then

we’re going to have duncan and kate

smith and we’ll talk about this in a


then john and carol are not and then

cheon will be sharing in the final week

and really trying to get those different

voices speaking

you know and uh but one of the things

that i wanted to

talk about is this issue of succession

yeah okay

and i know that um i mean i’m getting

older we’re all getting older

and uh there’s an emerging generation of

younger leaders that are rising up

and uh you know just what happened

within catch the fire recently

with the transfer of authority from john

and carol arnott

they’re still obviously emeritus leaders

of the whole movement but

no duncan and kate as younger leaders

have now taken the mantle and run with


talk about succession how do you see it

working how do you see it

what is and and particularly in

relationship to the concept of sustained


because that’s one of the things you’ve

you’ve spoken about a lot and and how do

you see those two working together

um well absolutely necessary obviously

uh who was it uh someone in church

history i read i forgot who said it now


success without a successor is not

success at all and

and so that’s that that’s a huge thing

in my heart

um i was watching uh a documentary with

my wife my wife and i

don’t watch a lot of documentaries

together actually i was playing on my

ipad while she was watching

and uh when i turned the tv on is not to

learn anything it’s to be entertained

you know

so uh so i’m playing with my ipad she’s

sitting there watching this documentary

and this phrase

came off out of this documentary it was

about monarch butterflies

and this phrase came out that said a

multi-generational migration

and i stopped and i put my ipad down i

said what was that

we actually rebound we listened to the

same we watched it

multi-generational migration that the

monarch butterflies is like 200 million

of them in mexico

and they migrate to canada but it takes

four generations to get there

yeah and then it takes four generations

to get back and it hit me

that none of us are going to be able to

complete our assignment in our


but we have to so put into the dna

of each following generation the sense

of purpose commission

the direction the intent of god

on the earth has to be instilled in the

hearts of a generation

and then relationally figure out how to

apply that but

that thing just really burned in me when

i heard it

and i knew that was the word i needed

for this this next season

that it’s not just you know my children

which they’re all in place

but it’s my grandchildren it’s their

children it’s this multi-generational


that god is wanting to do something so

significant in the earth that not one

generation can see it happen

and so that means that we become we we

honor and ride out the momentum of a

previous generation

that’s right i i don’t i don’t honor my

dad for example my grandparents

i don’t honor them because i don’t honor

them by building monuments to what they


i honor them by going where they didn’t

have time to go

carrying the momentum they paid a prize

i honor them by going

where they didn’t have time to go and my

children the same grandchildren

yeah i think uh dutch sheets coined a

phrase the synergy of generations

and that’s kind of like the the last few

verses of

hebrews 11 you know talks about these

guys didn’t get it done

but they were looking forward and uh you

know i remember going to

uh florence and and touring this

amazing building called the duomo and uh

that it was

actually those who laid the foundations

were not there to see the completed dome

it’s like how does that happen you know

it’s like we’re such an instant society

it’s hard for us to

think of that but i was actually

thinking about

genesis you know chapter 1 verse 28


god is giving the prime directive to

adam and eve and the third

issue you know be fruitful multiply fill

the earth

you know there’s only one way of doing

that when you start with one couple

that’s through a thousand generations