Bethel Church in Redding, CA, is a congregation rooted in the love of God and dedicated to worldwide transformation through revival. It’s our goal for God’s love to be manifest in signs, wonders, and miracles. The atmosphere at Bethel is charged with faith and exuberant joy, which manifests in all we do. We believe we’re on the edge of the greatest revival of all time. It’s our vision to see history become His-story as the kingdom of this world becomes the kingdom of our God. We welcome you to join us in this adventure!
and and that’s what i’m looking for i’m
looking for
that
that point of faith if it’s a thousand
people in the room that have it that’s
the better but if it’s only five i’ll
work with the five i’m going to serve
and love everyone but i really am going
to try to pour myself into those points
of faith
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if you don’t mind let’s take a
digression one of the interesting things
in just working with you is um
uh you’re like i i learned to prepare
sermons in seminary but you have you the
lord’s been working with you for a long
time to actually look for faith in the
room
while you are so i don’t go too far down
this road but i’ll just tell you like as
a like
called ministry at 17 and then educated
in this i didn’t have anybody talking to
me about look for faith in the room
and then if you’re if you don’t find
faith in the room maybe use testimony of
god’s intervention
or i’ve even seen you become even uh
more pithy like i’m gonna actually be a
little more
obscure every every once in a while now
you do this less now since the stage is
bigger
but i’ve seen you kind of like almost
say the crowd are you really hungry
tonight did you come to
observe
because that’s not what we’re doing
we’re actually going to move in the
gospel of jesus so maybe you just speak
to like something that’s interesting
about like i think it’s interesting
you’re you’re actually trying to preach
to a transformation
teach to a transformation into an
encounter and lots of times when we’re
when guys like me a little bit more like
i need to give you the right information
so that you can articulate it it’s we’re
actually doing something different
in a meeting so i sometimes think you
say things even chris will say
provocative things like that
just because you’re like i’m i’m
actually working
on the people in the room in the moment
do you want to speak to that
yeah that’s that’s a a huge part of what
we do a huge part of my approach i
obviously i want to give them correct
information
absolutely i i want to train and educate
in the scriptures
but i’m looking for that
for that point of faith
what they don’t need is more information
lots of christians have plenty of
information they just don’t act on it
they just yeah they don’t they don’t
believe it they don’t know how or
they’ve got two different parts of their
life they’ve got the
theology part and their lifestyle part
and they’re they’re not often the same
or if they have a discounting idea like
jesus was god that’s why and you’re
trying to address that discounting idea
or or they will look at somebody and say
well it’s because he’s a pastor that he
can do that and i’m just a church goer
or something and so we do everything we
can to obliterate those lines of
division and to help people become aware
of what god’s actually commissioned
every follower of jesus to do not as a
condemning weighty thing but as a
challenge as an invitation and so i’m
looking for that i’m looking for the
point of faith in the room
and uh you know when i first came to
reading i i would
you know the bible says to cast seed
beside all water so i would i would
throw out the message so to speak for
everybody in the room but i would look
for the four or five that have fire in
their eyes i’d look for the ones that
that i knew
were already engaged with the reality
that i was talking about because then
then i can find where i’m going to pour
my life
because if we can create momentum within
the church family by those who are
really in
hearty agreement not just theological
agreement hardy agreement with you’re
going where i ate to go if i can find
those folks
then there’s there’s not going to be
that separation in the in the
congregation’s mind there’s a separation
staff does this we do that yeah and if
we can create movement within
you know within
the church
cal pierce so powerfully touched by the
lord
it changed the nature of the church when
he was powerfully touched because now
they see oh the businessmen that they’ve
done business with for all these years
is now functioning as bill has been
teaching us so apparently it is for all
of us kind of a thing yeah and and
that’s what i’m looking for i’m looking
for
that
that point of faith if it’s a thousand
people in the room that have it that’s
the better but if it’s only five i’ll
work with the five i’m gonna serve and
love everyone but i really am gonna try
to pour myself into the those points of
faith
wow
i i hope this is instructive for folks
that are just listening to our
conversation because they um i think we
all listen differently like like sure
and then all i found to myself like
because um look chris will preach
inspirational like he will he will be
preaching to inspire
sometimes and i can from my upbringing
and my personality i can sense my i’m
not going to be inspired like this thing
rises up in me that tries to go hey
you’re trying to inspire me
like i don’t roll there you’re like hey
you know i gotta it’s gonna make a ton
of sense i gotta and so it’s very i have
to like listen to that that idiot voice
and that kind of bent
to listen to not be inspired like i know
what you’re trying to do you’re trying
to inspire me well that’s not so easy to
do you don’t know what it’s like to live
in here you know so i have
i actually you know the holy spirit has
to kind of highlight that and go hey let
yourself be inspired in this moment you
know like listen with possibility yeah
listen with joy um yeah and then and i
think i began to reflect on that when i
when your time i’m looking for faith in
the in the in the church and the folks
in the pews and i’m like
huh i don’t know that i was ever
preaching looking for faith you know i
mean somewhere trying to kind of create
it i don’t know if i was ever looking
for it yeah i
yeah oftentimes when you try to create
it you tend to hype things and so i’m
i’m not wanting to do that but the the
bigger part of what i’m doing in that
constant context is i’m trying to i’m
trying to find what he’s saying yeah you
know in that moment i certainly want to
find those you know the eyes of fires
the way i describe the people that are
really burning for what we’re bringing
um i want to find those people but my
main concern is i want to make sure that
i’m saying what the father is saying i’m
doing what he’s doing
and i think we see that
that kind of thing with jesus uh he was
not going to minister to the cyber
finishing woman but when she responded
with great faith
at least in my thinking he was able to
recognize what the father was doing by
recognizing faith in her
which is the invitation to do what the
father’s doing so that that’s the
attempt of my life is just it’s just to
do the best i can with what i have to
discern what he’s saying just know what
he’s doing yeah but when you’re trying
to follow the voice of the lord and the
heart of the lord in your message while
you’re preaching that
yeah that probably takes years to learn
or is is hard
you know i i’ll tell you how i learned
it when i learned it is is you know i
would read and pray and study
all week long but i would i i used to
lead the single adults here in reading
for a season for probably a year or two
maybe three years before i came and did
it yes yes yes yes
yes
and uh and i and i felt i actually it’s
going to sound weird and i would i tell
our own students don’t do what i did
don’t do what i did
but i felt that the lord prohibited me
from bringing sermon notes into the room
and that i was to actually get up and
learn to hear in the moment wow
and uh and so sometimes i’d stand up
with nothing and so i’d lead in a chorus
not nothing but a week of study and and
regular prayer life for the lord but no
notes no you can always pull out things
you know yeah okay you know yeah but
but i want to impart what he’s saying in
the moment yeah and i don’t make it too
spooky but i felt like that was the call
or demand of my life so i i had to learn
how to do what he was saying to do
i mean there is a teaching role where
you’re going through the gospel of john
today we’re doing chapter one and and
this line upon line precept on precept i
love that
but that’s not usually what i’m called
to do i’ll do it occasionally
i’m i feel like i’m required to get into
a moment where i hear what the father is
saying
and if he’s silent i’ll be silent if
he’s speaking i’ll speak and that’s
that’s the lesson i’ve been
trying to learn for the last 40 some
years 45 46 years it’s just to hear what
he’s saying in that moment
and um
it’s exciting for me
when he begins to speak because because
i can i can see that
he’s connecting the dots
you know honestly sometimes in study i
don’t i didn’t connect the dots
but but as i hear what he’s saying all
of a sudden oh this is what i’ve been
reading about this week or this month or
last year whenever it might be so that’s
really my heart is i i want to learn to
do that well yeah yeah i think for me
it’s just learning that there was
another way to like
lead in the in the moment and preach in
the moment and kind of the way i was
brought up and sure and learn to prepare
sermons it was really fruitful for me
and to just again enjoy the diversity of
the calling on our life sure are we
supposed to be up to yeah yeah exactly
so you’re just talking about how you’re
in the preaching moment you’re trying to
say what the lord’s saying and do what
he’s doing so does that mean that you
you get it right all the time or that
your words are the very words of the
lord are you the the new pope or the new
the new apostle the new super apostle
goodness no no the human element is so
strong in everything we do yeah you know
it’s it’s like we see through a glass
darkly i mean that’s that’s who we are
that’s who i am
it’s just it’s always gonna be my best
attempt
and uh and it’s going to be flawed and
there will be some days i get it more
right than others
but it’s it’s going to be my effort to
honor him to hear from him and to say
what he’s saying but it’s not infallible
it is not equal to scripture absolutely
it has to be based here
but no no there’s a flawed element to
everything but but that flaw
doesn’t give me the right to withdraw
from my attempt to obey and please him
i owe him
i owe him my best
so that uh
um
so that i don’t use any excuses
i i don’t use an excuse well we’re
flawed i’ll just mess it up no it’s it’s
worse if i don’t do something that’s
good and then
it also it’s that trust in the community
like when the community feeds back and
says we heard you say this is this what
you meant to say right so there’s a
they’re like we’ve kind of joked about
when the feedback is this aggressive or
it never comes to you except suddenly
it’s it’s in print somewhere you know
some sort of conference you’re like well
i’d love to have had a conversation so
you’re not actually arguing with
something i don’t believe and didn’t say
yeah um but but when you’re preaching
community and so even even you know as
rough and tumble as the internet or
social media can be sometimes that
feedback level this actually helps oh
yeah us hear ourselves and go oh
i didn’t mean to say that yeah yeah
and so we were talking like i didn’t
mean to say since i’m trying to hear
from the lord everything i say is from
god oh goodness yeah no exactly in fact
one of the privileges for me like in
writing is every time i have a chance to
have you edit what i’m writing because
you’ll come to me with questions and
sometimes i’ll have a good answer and
and or i’ll fine-tune the statement or
paul pulled some because it did not
communicate what i intended and that’s i
think you’ve emphasized it right it’s
when you’re in community when you’re in
people who who are not afraid of you
but can but are willing to talk to you
about their questions or whatever
that’s one of the benefits as we iron
sharpens iron we just get better yeah
and uh yeah it’s a huge part of our life
and so it happens in community let’s
just go there super quick but sometimes
with the with apostolic ministry people
are like well who are you responsible to
you know at that point sure and i know
that there are uh men and women who
speak into your life and and address uh
things uh when they’re did you mean to
say this bill you’ve already talked
about some uh friends that are scholars
who will jump in yeah um i’ve had so you
give me permission as somebody who works
for you i’ve come in and said hey did
you mean to
communicate this and so
partly the apostles um anybody who’s
functioning as an in an apostolic role
is is
is as how do i say they’re kind of
submitted to the community and ideally
other apostolic
leaders as well is that is that your
experience yeah
you have to be yeah if
if you become an island
you know if you’re unapproachable then
you’re prone to air you you will
you will left alone you will create
something that’s not right it’s not
accurate it’s not true i live that with
my my family they’re growing up
i encourage my children my wife you know
i tell my wife say honey you know when i
have an attitude starting to form and
you can help me catch it before there’s
bad conduct you know all i want to do is
please god yeah i’m inviting you please
please say honey you you raised your
voice here and when you’re talking to
the kids and you shouldn’t have done
that and i invite her and so that’s
that’s honestly that’s how we’ve done
life for as long as i can remember since
uh i was first married that’s that’s
approach and it carries over into church
life we want to have those honest
conversations i don’t want dishonor
you know i don’t want my kids you know
doing this i don’t want you know you or
anyone else uh doing the disrespect
thing i can’t control that but that’s
not what i’m looking for yeah but i am
looking for community absolutely i’m
looking for honest conversation because
we’re we’ve got to live this life
together none of us get to do this by
ourselves we’ve got to i’ve got to learn
from who you are and benefit from it and
of course vice versa
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