Who are you fighting to forgive? Whether it’s an ex, someone you used to call a friend, a parent, or even a person you’re doing life with, forgiveness is a hard thing—but thank God He’s willing to help us through the process! Listen as Joyce joins the girls and they unpack the steps you can take every day to let go of offenses, respond with grace to frustrating situations, and even forgive the people who’ve caused some of your deepest wounds. As you work with Him through the process, He’ll meet you right where you are and heal you in every place where you’ve been broken.
the world that we live in today is sick
and it’s
it’s in pain this whole planet is like a
ball of pain and it’s mostly over this
kind of stuff
[Music]
hi everyone welcome to joyce meyer’s
talk it out podcast this is where joyce
teaches the word of god in her practical
no-nonsense way and my friends and i
talk through the real stuff of living it
i’m ginger stocky with erin cluley and
jay and you should consider yourself one
of us now come on in here and let’s talk
it out together
joyce is with us
welcome thanks for hanging out with us
today you’re welcome we appreciate it
just kind of felt that you needed me
today
[Laughter]
actually i really am glad she’s here
today are you yeah i made a list of
questions oh well good
i did
i really did
well we’re talking about forgiveness
today we’ll just throw it out there
because it’s so important we don’t need
to sugarcoat it we don’t need to warm up
to it
everybody in our lives at different
times needs to forgive someone needs to
forgive ourselves whatever it may be and
so what we’re going to do first
is we’re going to hear from joyce
explaining about forgiveness and exactly
what it is and why it’s so important and
then we’ll come back and we’ll all talk
it out together
matthew 6 12-15 may be familiar
scripture but i want you to see the word
so let’s put it up
and forgive us our debts as we have
forgiven left and remitted and let go of
the debts and have given up the
resentment against our
debtors now
pay attention to that because we
probably really
don’t want god to do that but that’s the
way he does it
we really would not want god to forgive
us the way we forgive others
and how many years have we prayed that
large prayer and we think it sounds so
spiritual and so holy listen to what
you’re saying god the same way i forgive
other people that’s the way i want you
to forgive me
sometimes we kind of sort of do the
official i forgive you thing
but that’s different from total
forgiveness
now if somebody’s been abusing you
total forgiveness doesn’t even always
mean
restoration of the relationship
but it is about how you talk about them
how you feel about them how you pray for
them what you would like to see happen
to them
how you respond when you hear they’ve
been blessed
oh come on we’re going to dive in today
i have to help you get over this
i have fought this battle myself and
i’m just telling you you’re going to
have no quality of life until you get
over these things
and you have to get good at it because
this is not one of those one time in a
life trials you’re going to have this
many many many times in your life
many times
and don’t think just because you go to
church you won’t get offended there
because you will
and lead us not into temptation but
deliver us from evil for yours is the
kingdom the power and the glory forever
amen
for if you forgive people their
trespasses their reckless and willful
sins leaving them letting them go and
giving up the resentment
your heavenly father will also forgive
you
but if you do not forgive others
now come on let’s act like we believe
this today
let’s don’t just read it
let’s don’t just
pray the lord’s prayer as some
wrote repetition because we think it
sounds spiritual
but if you do not forgive others their
trespasses their reckless and willful
sins leaving them letting them go and
giving up the resentment neither will
your father forgive you your trespasses
that’s a big statement
it is she made such a great point that
we really don’t want god to forgive us
the way we forgive other
been teaching peop for years but it’s
just like
wow i mean if that’s really true and we
know it is because it’s the bible
we better change the way we do things a
little bit
yeah it kind of makes you rethink how it
handled so many different situations
because i thought i have forgiven but do
my actions afterwards is that is that
how god is forgiving me probably not so
like i forgive a little bit yeah and
then i get mad again and i take it back
and then maybe i’ll take another step
forward a little bit of forgiveness then
i’ll get hurt a little bit more
and i’ll stay mad for a while and not
talk to you
i don’t want god doing that with me you
know some guilt in there every few days
exactly right any little jab i can get
in or something i can say to somebody
else that maybe makes them mad at them
too yeah you know i don’t want god
treating me that way
ouch if we just sat and thought about
what we just heard
for about an hour it’s like
puts a little bit of the reverential
fear of god in you it’s like this is
really
really something that’s important and
like you said earlier
everybody’s faced with this
i was thinking about a girl who told me
one time that she counted
how many times in one week
she had an opportunity to be offended
and had to decide
rather to forgive
or to take the offense and said it was
40 times wow
in one minute
and that is probably just an average
week i mean it may not have been
anything out of the ordinary it’s just
the way it is i don’t think we realize
how often yeah we do have to just decide
to let it go or to believe the best or
two yeah so if you if
if you soak that stuff up all the time
you’re going to have a problem i love
what you said too that you have to
decide to do it because you almost do
have to just like decide in the morning
whatever happens today
i will like pre-deciding that you’re
gonna forgive regardless of what happens
yeah i wake up in the morning now and i
say like god give me an unoffendable
heart like uh please because i i can
easily walk in a fence i’m like well you
know like
but i’ve really especially these past
few years have been intentionally trying
to wake up and say god please
grab my heart so that i can be
unoffendable like like help me to let
things kind of
not where i walk like and be like aloof
of things but but that i let things kind
of roll off and i have gotten a lot
better and i’m not i’m not where i want
to be yet but i have gotten a lot better
with like
forgiving and letting things go a little
quicker honestly because i know
especially i have a lot of everybody has
a lot of reasons to be angry at people
or be frustrated with people but just
with what i’ve walked through these past
few years i just like
i i just don’t i don’t want the weight
of being mad it’s it’s it’s heavy yeah
that’s the thing it’s heavy it’s not
worth it
it’s it’s not it’s like it’s heavy it’s
heavy to be
angry all the time right and it like it
robs you of of you of the present yeah
and i
and like i feel sometimes i was feeling
justified and being angry sure and being
upset and being oh yeah you know wanting
to get back a lot of reasons for people
to be offended to be justifiably angry
yeah but like you said we can’t we can’t
live in that no i didn’t want i don’t
want to live in it
and i’ve been literally seriously this
past year especially
i try to wake up because i like other
than even the fear i wake up now with so
much more gratitude because
satan really dealt like he was really
warm with me with feeling like i was
alone
in a lot of things because i was so
angry at people and so disappointed in
people i really was like god where were
you when all this stuff was happening
like did you abandon me so like that was
a season this past season has been
difficult me and god have been really
wrestling like where were you like
how did this happen and you let it
happen and how did you let it happen for
so long like and then you let me find
out and then it just all went it just
went worse you know once i found out and
so i was mad at god you know i was
really mad at god and so honestly like i
have that fear of god but now i have so
much more gratitude towards him too
because because i feel his love now i
feel like i’m grateful for him even
allowing me to go through that angry
season with him you know i think if we
think
about our offenses toward god
i mean there’s nothing that anybody has
done to me
or to you or to any of us
that’s greater than our sins and
offenses yeah against god and how
merciful he is to us
and how many things we do
that we don’t even realize we do
you know david prayed that
god would forgive him for his
unconscious faults
for even things that he didn’t know
about and i pray that real often because
there’s no telling how many times a day
i mean if god wanted to get mad and stay
mad every time we did something
wrong he’d have to be mad at us all the
time yeah so that helps too if we think
about well you know what you did was
wrong
but
you know i’ve done
a lot worse
i think it’s really good to talk about
some of the very practical things that
that we’ve all dealt with
because it really helps other people i
mean jay was just doing that and talking
about what what you’ve been through with
your divorce in this last season and i
think it gives hope to other people to
think
yeah i i feel that way or i have felt
that way but she’s able to forgive she’s
able to forgive
god forgives me you know how can i move
forward so aaron are there particular
areas for you that you’ve had to really
deal with this forgiveness thing sure
one of them
i’m going to save i’m going to just
fight question for joyce
but i was thinking about this
a few years ago um i had it was my first
leadership position here and so somebody
left and i had to go through all their
emails and so i found emails about me
and
how i was young and didn’t deserve this
and all this stuff and i thought oh my
goodness i i was already insecure and
then i had to read all the stuff that
people were saying about me i found
something else on the internet about me
as well as a person as a leader and so i
i remember that’s terrible it was awful
wow but this is where it’s easy to get
offended for other people too you know
i know i know
but i i had to fight really hard because
i knew god was putting me in that
position for a reason and i could only
do the best that i could do and maybe
there was truth to what they were saying
maybe i was naive or i don’t remember i
don’t even remember what they said but
i had to choose to not dwell on what
they said and forgive them i never got
to talk to them about it because they
were gone but i had to choose to forgive
for my own like freedom
and to not be held back from what god
was calling me to do
um so that was hard because there was no
closure i didn’t get to have a
conversation about it i just had to
decide in my own mind this is not who
you are this is not you like learn from
this but do your best and
yeah i like what you said though that if
you didn’t do that
that god wouldn’t be able to work
in your life and in this new role for
you the way that you wanted him to the
way that you wanted to be used by him
because i could see how it would have
held me back i would have held myself
back because of my own insecurities
about what i heard or read
but
i also there was enough stubbornness in
me that i wasn’t going to let that
person
stop
what god was doing you know yeah so a
lot of times we have insecurities that
they have to be taken care of on this
level
in order for us to go to this level
and i experienced that every i could
look back in my ministry and each time
that god has promoted me
to another level
i’ve experienced rejection
interesting on the level that i was on
and i’ve really learned from that that
rejection is the biggest tool that satan
uses
to try to keep us
from going forward and
i mean the last time i was leaving my
position
at the church
and
going out into
this ministry that i
you know
that we now have but that didn’t exist
then you didn’t know what it was going
on i was like
i heard god say go north south east and
west and nobody knew me i didn’t i mean
it was a huge step of faith i mean i was
getting judgment and criticism and
accusation
everything from you’re fully yourself
and you’re just you know
on and on and on and
it was so hurtful to me and it took me a
good three years to get over it but i
realized many years later
that
if that wouldn’t have happened those
people
that did that to me they would have been
the ones that i would have wanted to
have taken with me
and been on the staff of this ministry
and it would have been even more
dangerous to me then yeah
than now and so look how much better it
turned out yeah and so yeah
even even when things are hard like that
you know it’s not it’s not god doing it
it’s not even god
letting something happen
yeah people are people make their own
choices they make wrong choices but god
is good enough to use even the bad
things that people do to our benefits
sure yeah and i think something
something with that is
like you were saying it forced me to go
to him right because i couldn’t rely on
their validation of aaron you’re doing a
great job keep it up
that that taught me early on in
leadership that i have to continually
point my my head to him to get my
validation not in
the people i’m working with yeah and
something you said about um when you
were talking about
like even though you didn’t get closure
i think a lot of people struggle with
that like
you want to have like that’s how you
know that you’ve forgiven because you’ve
had a conversation you get the closure
well i know i didn’t get closure at all
you know and that’s a hard place to for
to say i forgive you even though i don’t
i don’t get a
well i gotta i’m sorry but it was like
i’m sorry but then kept doing all the
junk but it you know so that doesn’t
feel like i’m sorry you know but i’m i’m
learning more
that forgiveness people say this all the
time you know like forgiveness is not
about the other person it’s for you
and i’m learning that more and more now
so i don’t have to get the closure i
don’t have to get the i’m sorry it’s not
it’s not about hearing anything from the
other person it’s relieving this is
something i’ve just been thinking about
like relieving this person
people period um of
of dictating how my emotions are
like
if i’m happy or sad like
like i want to let go of that i don’t
want people’s actions to determine my
mood or my
like so i’ve just been it’s like i don’t
care if i get i’m sorry for you i’m
letting you go because i don’t want to
give anyone but god that authority in my
life because i was realizing i was like
people would do stuff i’d get mad or
people i’d be happy and it’s like people
are i’m people’s puppets at times you
know like and i don’t want to live like
that so yeah
i had a really good friend ask me the
question and she was very upset about
something and
she said but i don’t have to forgive
them
yet because they haven’t asked me to
if they ask me to i’ll have to forgive
them
but and and i’m thinking it’s just such
a natural thing for so many of us to
wait
for that you know i don’t have to deal
with this yet and if they ask me to
forgive them i i will but you’re right
that that forgiveness issue is so much
more
about our hearts yeah that we if we wait
for somebody else it may never come
and that’s not the key anyway it’s about
what god wants to do in our lives and
even when somebody comes and says
they’re sorry
i’m not saying that it doesn’t help at
all
but like
my mother didn’t tell me she was sorry
for what she let my dad do to me
for 30 years
and i can’t necessarily say that once
she said it
it made me feel right
it doesn’t change anything
i guess i just thought it was sad that
she waited that long
to say anything and so
what is closure really
anyway you know once you’ve had your
heart ripped open by somebody do you
ever really
yeah get it closed yeah i guess i think
part of it is wanting just that honestly
that validation that like
you wronged me so it is i want to hear
it yeah i want somebody to say i was
wrong yeah
it’s hard also to say to tell you i
forgive you when i don’t think you
deserve it and like like i’m giving you
the power back because until i forgive
you
i’m holding the power
and once i say i forgive you i’m moving
past this it’s saying okay well now it’s
equal again well before we continue can
we because i want to make sure people
understand this the biggest detriment to
forgiveness is that people don’t
understand
that forgiving somebody doesn’t
necessarily change how you feel about
them
this has nothing to do with feelings and
that that is the biggest problem people
think
well i haven’t forgiven you because i
still feel
a certain way about you and it was so
helpful to me when god taught me that
forgiveness is not a feeling it’s a
decision
about how you’re going to treat people
yeah so
in the opening statement
it’s it’s a decision to not talk bad
about them
to pray for them
to even help them if they were in a
position where they needed help and you
could help them
to not
spread rumors if you hear they’ve been
blessed you know if somebody has hurt
you you hear they’ve been blessed like
how are you
there’s a few things you just don’t know
it’s like you just don’t want it and so
it’s really
it’s so important for people to realize
you you’ll never think you’ve forgiven
anybody if you wait to feel better about
them i mean i’ve shared that all the
years that i took care of my mom and dad
in the nursing home there was never one
time that i went to visit them that i
really wanted to go i did it because i
felt like it was the right thing to do
and it was what god wanted me to do and
i think you know love is as much about
doing the right thing
as it is feeling the right way about
somebody so how do you know if you’ve
truly forgiven i think it’s by how you
treat people
how you treat them you know i mean i
know that i forgave my mom and dad
because
i took care of them until they died i
did what god asked me to do
i was not
i didn’t mistreat them in any way i
wasn’t mean to them i provided for them
and
i took care of them good
and i did that because of my love for
god
and uh
but i couldn’t you know god didn’t
expect me to have gooey gushy feelings
about them because
of what they had done to me yeah and i
remember my mother asking me one time
how do you feel about me
and i thought well here we go you know
and i thought i’m not going to lie to
her and i just told her i said you know
i don’t feel about you the way that
a girl should feel about her mother
because of what you let happen to me
but i said i do love you as a child of
god and i will always make sure that
you’re taken care of
and so that’s you
to me that’s what god wants us to he
wants us to choose to do the right thing
no matter
what somebody else does
we choose to do the right thing yeah
that’s so good and like also with that
like forgiveness i’ve just realized it’s
not forgetting
or excusing the myth the you know the
bad behavior and when you say that like
i know for a fact that this particular
season that i’ve just walked through i
would not have been able to do it
without everybody
watching this you in your testimony you
guys because
i did some last week i don’t think i
don’t know if i told y’all
i
my ex is getting married
okay y’all haven’t been on this little
journey with me right my ex is getting
married and he’s getting married very
quickly and soon and
i knew that my daughter was about well i
found out that they you know that my
daughter’s in the wedding and they’re
about to move in together
they’re about to move in together and
all that good stuff and that was hard
yeah but i knew the right thing to do
was to bless them forgive them and have
a conversation because we’re now in this
thing together even though my daughter’s
18 we’re still
we’re still like
i guess you call it a blended family i
don’t know like we’re now in this and
i’m not trying to be anybody’s best
friend but i’m saying if my daughter’s
living there like they’re we’re about to
be
connected you know so i was just like
it’s the right thing to do to
speak to you know her and him and so we
gotta i requested a call we had a call i
was like hey i just wanted to introduce
myself to you guys and or to you and
blessings to you all in your marriage
and i really was genuinely good for you
i know it was god but i know because of
your testimony look at how far god’s
brought you
in the last year
yeah to be able to do that yeah and
that’s exactly the kind of behavior that
god is looking for and it takes
spiritual maturity
and you did yourself such a favor in
doing that yeah because you could have
lost your relationship with your
daughter yeah
if you would have handled it a different
way yeah and just been full of
bitterness and angry all over again and
it’s really god does not tell us to
forgive people for them
it’s not because they deserve it it’s
because we deserve it yeah and i’m sure
you didn’t
really look forward to doing that you
didn’t really feel like my heart was
defeated i was nauseous the entire like
time before you know but i knew it was
the right thing to do i thanked her for
in like in including my daughter in the
wedding like
and as soon as i got off the phone i
kept i kept the call short
you know because i could feel myself
about to take a little turn
okay
let me
buy y’all you know i have to stop before
before i went too far but i remember
when like this was just like a week ago
now so i hung up the phone and i
remember
shaking like crazy and just i cried i
couldn’t control
the emotions i almost had like it felt
like a little like a panic attack but it
only lasted for about like five or ten
minutes like god you have to help me
and then i took a deep breath after i
prayed i was like i let go of it it’s
nothing i can do about the situation
this whole journey has felt like a dream
it’s felt like this isn’t happening to
me like this none of this is happening
you know but
in that moment it still felt like a
dream nothing really changed it still
felt hurt it didn’t feel as hard as it
is hurtful as it’s been feeling but i
felt like a weight lifted off of me
because i did it but i still felt sad
but how good do you feel that you did
that you know in your heart that you did
what god would have amazing i feel so
great that’s the thing i feel so great
about it and i didn’t want to do it but
i i knew that it was the right thing to
do this is no kudos to me because i was
like god
yeah but so proud of you so proud of you
yeah thank you that’s awesome so that’s
a good lesson for everybody right there
yeah
i think there’s so much to be learned in
doing the hard things and nobody wants
to have to be in that situation and like
you said god
maybe that wasn’t his master plan for us
but people make choices and there’s sin
in the world and
we all have to make really hard
decisions and for
you to learn for all of us to learn when
we do make that decision that god will
be there for us he’s not going to let us
down and he’s going to help us that that
makes such a difference i i’ve really
talked about trying to be unoffendable
i’ve spent a lot of time learning that
when you get these little um hurts and
nicks and bruises of things that just
happen every day that the sooner i
forgive the quicker they heal
and if i don’t
even the little things you know somebody
said something or whatever somebody did
something
if i don’t they those wounds get deeper
and you replay them in your mind and
they get bigger maybe than they ever
were
or you share it with somebody else and
together you go
and it becomes a scar and a really deep
wound when it was never meant to be that
so if if i can jump on these things
right away
and choose to forgive as soon as i can
it’s made a huge difference for me
but kind of like you’re talking about i
had one situation years ago where just
out of the blue i had
um
i guess what i would call it a terrible
betrayal from a friend really really
severe just
blatant lies and
totally shocked and i was so hurt
and when you get something like that out
of nowhere out of nowhere and you’re
completely
blown away
and just
shocked
i i think the the hard thing to do is to
begin with okay i need to forgive right
now you know i need to do it as soon as
i can and while that’s true
there there is a little bit of
preparation that you kind of have to do
for that wound you got to start to clean
it you know you can’t just put a
band-aid on it or it will come back up
later
and i really learned that through that
time that um
i had a lot of work in my heart to do
that was part of that forgiveness
process so it wasn’t just a okay god i’m
gonna forgive and i’m not gonna think
about this anymore i’m gonna move on
forgive and forget it it doesn’t work
that way it was god showing me step by
step by step
this is what you do first you know you
you make the decision to forgive
and then you stop wallowing in it you
stop reliving it you stop thinking what
will i say next time i see that person
you know so many steps that he showed me
that really helped me right
to get through that really
deep wound that i’m so grateful for
because it’s taught me so much for the
future and like you said i think it did
help prepare me
for god
for what god wanted to do in different
areas of my life one of the first things
that god wants us to do that’s so
helpful
is to pray for the people that hurt you
yeah it’s so hard and it’s really hard
in the beginning it is
it gets easier yeah it’s you know oh
don’t don’t make us look at that
i didn’t want to read a certain book of
the bible because it was his name
i used to think that if i prayed for god
to bless somebody
you know he’s going to
give them all these nice new things and
promote them and you know but that’s not
really when you pray for god to bless
somebody who’s
in sin or who’s done something wrong
probably the first thing he’s going to
try to bless them with is some truth in
reality
yeah about their own behavior so we make
a mistake when we think the bible says
pray for them
bless
and do not curse them
and that literally means pray for them
don’t say evil things about them
but say good things yeah with that i’m
praying bless them really good lord yeah
show them some really good stuff
all the blessings really i mean you know
the
praying for my dad all those years
finally brought him to the reality that
what he had done was wrong yeah
and
you know long story short and
everybody’s heard it he finally was
saved as a result of
i’ll never forget when he looked at dave
and he said
he said dave most men in your position
would have killed me
and all you ever did
was show me love wow
and so
what you did
in this last situation
in a way you did
not that you’re trying to do something
to them but you did more to them than if
you would have
openly come against them because
that kind of love you can’t argue with
that yeah it’s like what what can you do
with that
you can’t find
any fault with that yeah
yeah and the crazy thing is like i it
immediately made me think of some of the
things that i’ve gone through i think at
the when we first first first started
the podcast i would talk about my issue
with my my father
and that was before i even found out
about the infidelity or anything you
know and that was such a hard
thing you know going through that
forgiveness with my dad in that moment
it felt like the worst
hardest thing that i could have ever
done but
forgiving my dad even though my dad
never really apologized
like our relationship now in the in
these past couple of years has just
catapulted you know it’s nothing he’s
done i literally just like you know what
i’m tired of being mad at this man you
know like this is exhausting i’m tired
of being mad
you know i just don’t i’m too
i’m just
too old and been around the mountain too
many times to just spend another day i
mean
anger is exhausting it is it’s hard work
it is to stay angry and to think all
those negative thoughts and yeah you
know just be
mad every time somebody you don’t like
gets blessed or
somebody likes somebody that you don’t
like it’s like just
something that’s really helped me is to
realize god is only going to hold me
accountable for me
he’s not going to hold me accountable
for what somebody else does
but when i stand before him
i’m only going to be held accountable
for me and what i’ve done so my job is
to do the right thing
by god’s grace with his help
no matter what anybody else does and no
that’s not easy but it is easier than
the other choice yeah yeah it’s so good
to then like what you said is take
ownership too of your role right in the
in the situation like i know i had a bad
attitude with my dad sometimes i know i
wasn’t the best wife so it’s like those
things that doesn’t justify what anybody
else does but it definitely shifts the
perspective on like god how can i grow
from this situation right how can i
learn from this situation so that
ownership piece is
very very vital in the healing and
forgiveness process it’s like you said
before healing forgiving yourself too
like yeah forgive myself for not
necessarily being the best daughter all
the time not being the best wife all the
time not being the best friend you know
like god work on me so that i can learn
from my mistakes unforgiveness is
probably the single biggest problem that
we have in the body of christ
i believe it probably opens more doors
for the enemy
in people’s lives than anything else
because the bible says in ephesians 4
when you’re angry don’t let the sun go
down in your anger so god never tells
you not to ever get angry right that’s
annoying i said i’m so glad that’s a
well it’s a normal
human emotion but he says when you’re
angry do not sin
yeah so you feel that anger but
how you handle it what you do with it
is the question yeah don’t let the sun
go down in your anger don’t get the
devil don’t give the devil any such
foothold in your life so we actually do
open a door and invite the devil into
our life by staying mad well that needs
to be said again
seriously because there are so many of
us
right now who are
giving the devil that opportunity and we
don’t even realize that we don’t even
know our people why am i having this
problem why did this happen to me well
well maybe you open the door for the
enemy
by not being obedient
to god in forgiving somebody you know i
i prayed this morning
hopefully thousands and
thousands of people will hear this
see this and forgive somebody
but even if one person
yeah
will forgive somebody that they’re
hating or holding something against the
world that we live in today is sick yeah
and it’s
it’s in pain this whole planet is like a
ball of pain
and it’s mostly over this kind of stuff
yeah it’s people hating people
because they’re different than they are
they’re hating people because of
something that happened you know way
back over here somewhere that nobody can
do anything about now the answer to so
many of our problems is to forgive and
to walk in love
this verse ephesians 4 32 says be kind
to one another tenderhearted forgiving
one another as god in christ forgave you
and it’s so easy to brush over that but
when i when we were studying for this
that tenderhearted word really struck me
because when i’m really angry and when
i’m holding unforgiveness my heart
is hard you know it becomes like a rock
and it you know i can be really hard
headed i i told aaron this
i had to do something where somebody
asked me to use three words to describe
how to describe myself and i asked my
husband and one of the words he threw
out was hard-headed
wait a
minute i can be hard-headed but i prefer
like persistent or
determined those are better words but
anyway
that’s just a little side note for
everyone
i’m not angry i’ve forgiven him
but i don’t want my heart to be hard
yeah because it’s really easy they’re
kind of connected my brain and my heart
are kind of connected and um i think
very logically and and when you think
about something a lot your heart goes
with it right and i don’t want to be
hardhearted and i’ve seen i’ve been so
blessed all over the world to interview
so many amazing people and see
incredible stories of forgiveness
i remember a story of
a man whose brother was murdered and he
went to the prison and forgave the man
who murdered his brother
and
they became good friends and he was an
advocate for his release and
stories of child soldiers who the only
reason they were able to get through
what they got through was because at
some point they had to forgive and
people who clawed their way out of
mass graves who were left for dead who
had to forgive the people that did that
to them i hear those things and i think
of what jesus forgave
i think of him saying father forgive
them for they know not what they do
that’s the key against what they do
overwhelmed by that because the things
that
the things that people are able to
forgive is only through the grace of the
holy spirit yeah and it really is a gift
when we when we can do that for one
another and when i see
your stories and when i see what christ
was able to do and other people in the
world i know that i i need to take that
step to make the decisions
not to let my heart get hard to treat
each other with love
i
mean i would like to ask my question now
it rolls nicely into this please do i’ve
been saving it up i would love to hear
it because i’m starting to say i’m
waiting for them curious so good but i
just know i’m not the only one who’s
going to have this kind of question
um lots of our friends are going to want
to know how you’d answer this but
mike and i were talking recently we’ve
been through a year and had some stuff
happen and it and so we’ve gone through
this process of forgiveness and so it
took a while like i i couldn’t get to it
right away um
but we got to the point where i felt
like i had forgiven him but things will
come up and i’ll i’ll get triggered and
and
all the pain will come back and
and i know it hurts him because he’ll
say i thought i thought you forgave me i
thought we’ve moved past this and
yes my response is always yes i have but
also like there’s pain that i now have
to work through so how do you
you can’t forgive and forget
but how do you forgive and not
keep going back to that pain or what is
the what’s that look like well you know
the word forget is kind of interesting
you know that in in isaiah it says do
not earnestly remember
the past things
so it
there’s a difference in forgetting
something
and sitting around and thinking about it
all the time
so
sure i can bring back up and to be
honest
every once in a while i’ll find myself
drifting off into thinking about some of
the things my dad did to me
yeah and i’ll start feeling
upset and
and i’m like nope
not going there so you can
you can remember if you want to
but you don’t have to
you can choose not to
and so in a way
we can forget
not that you could never bring it back
up
you understand what i’m saying yeah it’s
like don’t earnestly remember don’t just
sit around and remember it and rehearse
it and that’s why it’s important not to
just keep talking about it and talking
about it and talking about it and yes
when you’re hurt like you were
it’s like having a bad father’s a bruise
there’s a wound
there’s a scab
you know it’s like healing sometimes
hurts worse
you know if you
if you fall and you you hurt yourself it
hurts but then
when that wound starts to form a scab
it actually hurts
even worse so it does take some time to
work through it but that still doesn’t
mean that you haven’t forgiven
yeah i think it’s a really good point
that because i can’t when this happened
last week when we had this conversation
i can remember at what point whatever
happened it was it was dumb it was it
was a dumb thing but i in my mind i
flipped over to connect why that made me
mad and i could just feel myself like
fueling my own anger
and reacting in a way that was totally
uncalled for but i justified it as
well
i can be mad i forgive you but i’m still
mad so
i can i can see how i could have made a
different choice to stop thinking about
that and just not go there
yeah one of the things that i’ve been
praying intentionally since all the
stuff that i’ve been dealing with was
like
like i can’t wipe away the memory
you know of what happened and i can’t
exactly
wipe away the fact that i felt the way i
felt when it when i found all of it out
and it kept happening you know and it’s
still happening you know like
the story doesn’t just stop you know um
you have to learn how to live
with that you know so i’ve been praying
and asking god intentionally god
please take the the pain away from the
memory let it like let the memory just
be a fact
it’s a fact that it happened but i i
pray that the the pain that’s affiliated
with it leaves like that’s one of the
things that i’ve been intentionally
praying like i can’t help blake when i
see people in love when i’m on a movie
like i can’t help when i see people talk
about marriage when i see people talk
about you know have their family
together you know are things that i
thought we were going to be like those
things trigger me instantly and it
instantly makes me go back to like
like it’s almost like it pulls me back
into where i was and like you said joyce
like you have to say like no like yes
that’s a fact but i don’t have to feel
that pain and also remembering that if
you let it
what happened to you even though it was
wrong
if you let it
god can use it to make you a better
person yeah
and that was really helpful to me when i
realized when i got to the point where i
thought you know
i said for years if only i wouldn’t have
been abused
if only i wouldn’t have been abused
thinking my life would be this or my
life would be that and i know i miss so
much in childhood i don’t even know what
i missed you know i don’t
i don’t know what it’s like to have a
father that you
could go to and sit on their lap and ask
for advice i mean
i’m just like
totally lost when it comes to that but i
do know that
when i finally i came to the point one
day i thought you know what i can’t even
really say i’m sorry that
it happened to me
because i know
that the fact that it did happen and
that god walked me through it
it’s made me who i am today yeah
it was it wasn’t god for it to happen
right but
you will turn out to be a better person
than you would have been
if you let god use it for that purpose
yeah i feel like so many other people
also i mean what you’re sharing will
help so many other people too yeah along
the way but all those different stories
you know of forgiveness that i’ve heard
i never heard anyone once ever say i
wish i would have held on to it a little
bit longer i wish i would have not
forgiven yeah and that’s good everyone
is is moving forward because they
forgave right not wishing they would
have stayed mad longer yeah and so
you’re right god god will use this in in
all of our lives what whatever it is
that we give to him
he’ll use in a positive way for our good
for his good and for the good of others
one verse i love that it’s not about
forgiveness in particular but first
corinthians 13 where it talks about what
love is and so i was going through that
recently and thought it’s patient and
kind and so did to take whatever
situation you’re upset about and apply
those words to it
i can’t change their behavior but that’s
how i need to respond that does make you
a better person i mean that does help
you grow
to where god wants to take you when
you’re that’s your focus not why you’re
so angry yeah yeah
well this is great stuff i mean i really
just think
several people listening
have
maybe had something that’s
seeped into their spirit maybe you’re
thinking about forgiving maybe you’re
ready to make that choice maybe you’ve
made it as we’ve been talking i don’t
know but i’m so grateful for all of you
sharing what you what you’ve been
through and i always like to hear
somebody say i’ll never forgive you oh
yeah
every anytime i hear that i think
you know don’t
don’t make that vow to yourself that
you’ll never forgive somebody because
your your life basically is on hold
until you make the decision to forgive
yeah and if you don’t want to be stuck
where you are right now
yeah it’s a good way to get out of that
rut is to make the choice to forgive
well we do have a free resource for you
that will be so helpful it’s joyce’s
booklet simply called forgiveness it’s a
free download so if you go to
joycemeyer.org
talk it out you can get that free
download right there
we just pray for all of you right now in
jesus name that you can do what you need
to do that he will help you that he will
walk you through this that every step
that you go forward and you want to take
two back that he’ll just continue
pulling you right along with him you’re
not doing this alone when you do it in
his power and not yours thank you all
for being with us we love you we’ll see
you next time
[Music]