Who are you fighting to forgive? Whether it’s an ex, someone you used to call a friend, a parent, or even a person you’re doing life with, forgiveness is a hard thing—but thank God He’s willing to help us through the process! Listen as Joyce joins the girls and they unpack the steps you can take every day to let go of offenses, respond with grace to frustrating situations, and even forgive the people who’ve caused some of your deepest wounds. As you work with Him through the process, He’ll meet you right where you are and heal you in every place where you’ve been broken.

the world that we live in today is sick

and it’s

it’s in pain this whole planet is like a

ball of pain and it’s mostly over this

kind of stuff


hi everyone welcome to joyce meyer’s

talk it out podcast this is where joyce

teaches the word of god in her practical

no-nonsense way and my friends and i

talk through the real stuff of living it

i’m ginger stocky with erin cluley and

jay and you should consider yourself one

of us now come on in here and let’s talk

it out together

joyce is with us

welcome thanks for hanging out with us

today you’re welcome we appreciate it

just kind of felt that you needed me



actually i really am glad she’s here

today are you yeah i made a list of

questions oh well good

i did

i really did

well we’re talking about forgiveness

today we’ll just throw it out there

because it’s so important we don’t need

to sugarcoat it we don’t need to warm up

to it

everybody in our lives at different

times needs to forgive someone needs to

forgive ourselves whatever it may be and

so what we’re going to do first

is we’re going to hear from joyce

explaining about forgiveness and exactly

what it is and why it’s so important and

then we’ll come back and we’ll all talk

it out together

matthew 6 12-15 may be familiar

scripture but i want you to see the word

so let’s put it up

and forgive us our debts as we have

forgiven left and remitted and let go of

the debts and have given up the

resentment against our

debtors now

pay attention to that because we

probably really

don’t want god to do that but that’s the

way he does it

we really would not want god to forgive

us the way we forgive others

and how many years have we prayed that

large prayer and we think it sounds so

spiritual and so holy listen to what

you’re saying god the same way i forgive

other people that’s the way i want you

to forgive me

sometimes we kind of sort of do the

official i forgive you thing

but that’s different from total


now if somebody’s been abusing you

total forgiveness doesn’t even always


restoration of the relationship

but it is about how you talk about them

how you feel about them how you pray for

them what you would like to see happen

to them

how you respond when you hear they’ve

been blessed

oh come on we’re going to dive in today

i have to help you get over this

i have fought this battle myself and

i’m just telling you you’re going to

have no quality of life until you get

over these things

and you have to get good at it because

this is not one of those one time in a

life trials you’re going to have this

many many many times in your life

many times

and don’t think just because you go to

church you won’t get offended there

because you will

and lead us not into temptation but

deliver us from evil for yours is the

kingdom the power and the glory forever


for if you forgive people their

trespasses their reckless and willful

sins leaving them letting them go and

giving up the resentment

your heavenly father will also forgive


but if you do not forgive others

now come on let’s act like we believe

this today

let’s don’t just read it

let’s don’t just

pray the lord’s prayer as some

wrote repetition because we think it

sounds spiritual

but if you do not forgive others their

trespasses their reckless and willful

sins leaving them letting them go and

giving up the resentment neither will

your father forgive you your trespasses

that’s a big statement

it is she made such a great point that

we really don’t want god to forgive us

the way we forgive other

been teaching peop for years but it’s

just like

wow i mean if that’s really true and we

know it is because it’s the bible

we better change the way we do things a

little bit

yeah it kind of makes you rethink how it

handled so many different situations

because i thought i have forgiven but do

my actions afterwards is that is that

how god is forgiving me probably not so

like i forgive a little bit yeah and

then i get mad again and i take it back

and then maybe i’ll take another step

forward a little bit of forgiveness then

i’ll get hurt a little bit more

and i’ll stay mad for a while and not

talk to you

i don’t want god doing that with me you

know some guilt in there every few days

exactly right any little jab i can get

in or something i can say to somebody

else that maybe makes them mad at them

too yeah you know i don’t want god

treating me that way

ouch if we just sat and thought about

what we just heard

for about an hour it’s like

puts a little bit of the reverential

fear of god in you it’s like this is


really something that’s important and

like you said earlier

everybody’s faced with this

i was thinking about a girl who told me

one time that she counted

how many times in one week

she had an opportunity to be offended

and had to decide

rather to forgive

or to take the offense and said it was

40 times wow

in one minute

and that is probably just an average

week i mean it may not have been

anything out of the ordinary it’s just

the way it is i don’t think we realize

how often yeah we do have to just decide

to let it go or to believe the best or

two yeah so if you if

if you soak that stuff up all the time

you’re going to have a problem i love

what you said too that you have to

decide to do it because you almost do

have to just like decide in the morning

whatever happens today

i will like pre-deciding that you’re

gonna forgive regardless of what happens

yeah i wake up in the morning now and i

say like god give me an unoffendable

heart like uh please because i i can

easily walk in a fence i’m like well you

know like

but i’ve really especially these past

few years have been intentionally trying

to wake up and say god please

grab my heart so that i can be

unoffendable like like help me to let

things kind of

not where i walk like and be like aloof

of things but but that i let things kind

of roll off and i have gotten a lot

better and i’m not i’m not where i want

to be yet but i have gotten a lot better

with like

forgiving and letting things go a little

quicker honestly because i know

especially i have a lot of everybody has

a lot of reasons to be angry at people

or be frustrated with people but just

with what i’ve walked through these past

few years i just like

i i just don’t i don’t want the weight

of being mad it’s it’s it’s heavy yeah

that’s the thing it’s heavy it’s not

worth it

it’s it’s not it’s like it’s heavy it’s

heavy to be

angry all the time right and it like it

robs you of of you of the present yeah

and i

and like i feel sometimes i was feeling

justified and being angry sure and being

upset and being oh yeah you know wanting

to get back a lot of reasons for people

to be offended to be justifiably angry

yeah but like you said we can’t we can’t

live in that no i didn’t want i don’t

want to live in it

and i’ve been literally seriously this

past year especially

i try to wake up because i like other

than even the fear i wake up now with so

much more gratitude because

satan really dealt like he was really

warm with me with feeling like i was


in a lot of things because i was so

angry at people and so disappointed in

people i really was like god where were

you when all this stuff was happening

like did you abandon me so like that was

a season this past season has been

difficult me and god have been really

wrestling like where were you like

how did this happen and you let it

happen and how did you let it happen for

so long like and then you let me find

out and then it just all went it just

went worse you know once i found out and

so i was mad at god you know i was

really mad at god and so honestly like i

have that fear of god but now i have so

much more gratitude towards him too

because because i feel his love now i

feel like i’m grateful for him even

allowing me to go through that angry

season with him you know i think if we


about our offenses toward god

i mean there’s nothing that anybody has

done to me

or to you or to any of us

that’s greater than our sins and

offenses yeah against god and how

merciful he is to us

and how many things we do

that we don’t even realize we do

you know david prayed that

god would forgive him for his

unconscious faults

for even things that he didn’t know

about and i pray that real often because

there’s no telling how many times a day

i mean if god wanted to get mad and stay

mad every time we did something

wrong he’d have to be mad at us all the

time yeah so that helps too if we think

about well you know what you did was



you know i’ve done

a lot worse

i think it’s really good to talk about

some of the very practical things that

that we’ve all dealt with

because it really helps other people i

mean jay was just doing that and talking

about what what you’ve been through with

your divorce in this last season and i

think it gives hope to other people to


yeah i i feel that way or i have felt

that way but she’s able to forgive she’s

able to forgive

god forgives me you know how can i move

forward so aaron are there particular

areas for you that you’ve had to really

deal with this forgiveness thing sure

one of them

i’m going to save i’m going to just

fight question for joyce

but i was thinking about this

a few years ago um i had it was my first

leadership position here and so somebody

left and i had to go through all their

emails and so i found emails about me


how i was young and didn’t deserve this

and all this stuff and i thought oh my

goodness i i was already insecure and

then i had to read all the stuff that

people were saying about me i found

something else on the internet about me

as well as a person as a leader and so i

i remember that’s terrible it was awful

wow but this is where it’s easy to get

offended for other people too you know

i know i know

but i i had to fight really hard because

i knew god was putting me in that

position for a reason and i could only

do the best that i could do and maybe

there was truth to what they were saying

maybe i was naive or i don’t remember i

don’t even remember what they said but

i had to choose to not dwell on what

they said and forgive them i never got

to talk to them about it because they

were gone but i had to choose to forgive

for my own like freedom

and to not be held back from what god

was calling me to do

um so that was hard because there was no

closure i didn’t get to have a

conversation about it i just had to

decide in my own mind this is not who

you are this is not you like learn from

this but do your best and

yeah i like what you said though that if

you didn’t do that

that god wouldn’t be able to work

in your life and in this new role for

you the way that you wanted him to the

way that you wanted to be used by him

because i could see how it would have

held me back i would have held myself

back because of my own insecurities

about what i heard or read


i also there was enough stubbornness in

me that i wasn’t going to let that



what god was doing you know yeah so a

lot of times we have insecurities that

they have to be taken care of on this


in order for us to go to this level

and i experienced that every i could

look back in my ministry and each time

that god has promoted me

to another level

i’ve experienced rejection

interesting on the level that i was on

and i’ve really learned from that that

rejection is the biggest tool that satan


to try to keep us

from going forward and

i mean the last time i was leaving my


at the church


going out into

this ministry that i

you know

that we now have but that didn’t exist

then you didn’t know what it was going

on i was like

i heard god say go north south east and

west and nobody knew me i didn’t i mean

it was a huge step of faith i mean i was

getting judgment and criticism and


everything from you’re fully yourself

and you’re just you know

on and on and on and

it was so hurtful to me and it took me a

good three years to get over it but i

realized many years later


if that wouldn’t have happened those


that did that to me they would have been

the ones that i would have wanted to

have taken with me

and been on the staff of this ministry

and it would have been even more

dangerous to me then yeah

than now and so look how much better it

turned out yeah and so yeah

even even when things are hard like that

you know it’s not it’s not god doing it

it’s not even god

letting something happen

yeah people are people make their own

choices they make wrong choices but god

is good enough to use even the bad

things that people do to our benefits

sure yeah and i think something

something with that is

like you were saying it forced me to go

to him right because i couldn’t rely on

their validation of aaron you’re doing a

great job keep it up

that that taught me early on in

leadership that i have to continually

point my my head to him to get my

validation not in

the people i’m working with yeah and

something you said about um when you

were talking about

like even though you didn’t get closure

i think a lot of people struggle with

that like

you want to have like that’s how you

know that you’ve forgiven because you’ve

had a conversation you get the closure

well i know i didn’t get closure at all

you know and that’s a hard place to for

to say i forgive you even though i don’t

i don’t get a

well i gotta i’m sorry but it was like

i’m sorry but then kept doing all the

junk but it you know so that doesn’t

feel like i’m sorry you know but i’m i’m

learning more

that forgiveness people say this all the

time you know like forgiveness is not

about the other person it’s for you

and i’m learning that more and more now

so i don’t have to get the closure i

don’t have to get the i’m sorry it’s not

it’s not about hearing anything from the

other person it’s relieving this is

something i’ve just been thinking about

like relieving this person

people period um of

of dictating how my emotions are


if i’m happy or sad like

like i want to let go of that i don’t

want people’s actions to determine my

mood or my

like so i’ve just been it’s like i don’t

care if i get i’m sorry for you i’m

letting you go because i don’t want to

give anyone but god that authority in my

life because i was realizing i was like

people would do stuff i’d get mad or

people i’d be happy and it’s like people

are i’m people’s puppets at times you

know like and i don’t want to live like

that so yeah

i had a really good friend ask me the

question and she was very upset about

something and

she said but i don’t have to forgive


yet because they haven’t asked me to

if they ask me to i’ll have to forgive


but and and i’m thinking it’s just such

a natural thing for so many of us to


for that you know i don’t have to deal

with this yet and if they ask me to

forgive them i i will but you’re right

that that forgiveness issue is so much


about our hearts yeah that we if we wait

for somebody else it may never come

and that’s not the key anyway it’s about

what god wants to do in our lives and

even when somebody comes and says

they’re sorry

i’m not saying that it doesn’t help at


but like

my mother didn’t tell me she was sorry

for what she let my dad do to me

for 30 years

and i can’t necessarily say that once

she said it

it made me feel right

it doesn’t change anything

i guess i just thought it was sad that

she waited that long

to say anything and so

what is closure really

anyway you know once you’ve had your

heart ripped open by somebody do you

ever really

yeah get it closed yeah i guess i think

part of it is wanting just that honestly

that validation that like

you wronged me so it is i want to hear

it yeah i want somebody to say i was

wrong yeah

it’s hard also to say to tell you i

forgive you when i don’t think you

deserve it and like like i’m giving you

the power back because until i forgive


i’m holding the power

and once i say i forgive you i’m moving

past this it’s saying okay well now it’s

equal again well before we continue can

we because i want to make sure people

understand this the biggest detriment to

forgiveness is that people don’t


that forgiving somebody doesn’t

necessarily change how you feel about


this has nothing to do with feelings and

that that is the biggest problem people


well i haven’t forgiven you because i

still feel

a certain way about you and it was so

helpful to me when god taught me that

forgiveness is not a feeling it’s a


about how you’re going to treat people

yeah so

in the opening statement

it’s it’s a decision to not talk bad

about them

to pray for them

to even help them if they were in a

position where they needed help and you

could help them

to not

spread rumors if you hear they’ve been

blessed you know if somebody has hurt

you you hear they’ve been blessed like

how are you

there’s a few things you just don’t know

it’s like you just don’t want it and so

it’s really

it’s so important for people to realize

you you’ll never think you’ve forgiven

anybody if you wait to feel better about

them i mean i’ve shared that all the

years that i took care of my mom and dad

in the nursing home there was never one

time that i went to visit them that i

really wanted to go i did it because i

felt like it was the right thing to do

and it was what god wanted me to do and

i think you know love is as much about

doing the right thing

as it is feeling the right way about

somebody so how do you know if you’ve

truly forgiven i think it’s by how you

treat people

how you treat them you know i mean i

know that i forgave my mom and dad


i took care of them until they died i

did what god asked me to do

i was not

i didn’t mistreat them in any way i

wasn’t mean to them i provided for them


i took care of them good

and i did that because of my love for


and uh

but i couldn’t you know god didn’t

expect me to have gooey gushy feelings

about them because

of what they had done to me yeah and i

remember my mother asking me one time

how do you feel about me

and i thought well here we go you know

and i thought i’m not going to lie to

her and i just told her i said you know

i don’t feel about you the way that

a girl should feel about her mother

because of what you let happen to me

but i said i do love you as a child of

god and i will always make sure that

you’re taken care of

and so that’s you

to me that’s what god wants us to he

wants us to choose to do the right thing

no matter

what somebody else does

we choose to do the right thing yeah

that’s so good and like also with that

like forgiveness i’ve just realized it’s

not forgetting

or excusing the myth the you know the

bad behavior and when you say that like

i know for a fact that this particular

season that i’ve just walked through i

would not have been able to do it

without everybody

watching this you in your testimony you

guys because

i did some last week i don’t think i

don’t know if i told y’all


my ex is getting married

okay y’all haven’t been on this little

journey with me right my ex is getting

married and he’s getting married very

quickly and soon and

i knew that my daughter was about well i

found out that they you know that my

daughter’s in the wedding and they’re

about to move in together

they’re about to move in together and

all that good stuff and that was hard

yeah but i knew the right thing to do

was to bless them forgive them and have

a conversation because we’re now in this

thing together even though my daughter’s

18 we’re still

we’re still like

i guess you call it a blended family i

don’t know like we’re now in this and

i’m not trying to be anybody’s best

friend but i’m saying if my daughter’s

living there like they’re we’re about to


connected you know so i was just like

it’s the right thing to do to

speak to you know her and him and so we

gotta i requested a call we had a call i

was like hey i just wanted to introduce

myself to you guys and or to you and

blessings to you all in your marriage

and i really was genuinely good for you

i know it was god but i know because of

your testimony look at how far god’s

brought you

in the last year

yeah to be able to do that yeah and

that’s exactly the kind of behavior that

god is looking for and it takes

spiritual maturity

and you did yourself such a favor in

doing that yeah because you could have

lost your relationship with your

daughter yeah

if you would have handled it a different

way yeah and just been full of

bitterness and angry all over again and

it’s really god does not tell us to

forgive people for them

it’s not because they deserve it it’s

because we deserve it yeah and i’m sure

you didn’t

really look forward to doing that you

didn’t really feel like my heart was

defeated i was nauseous the entire like

time before you know but i knew it was

the right thing to do i thanked her for

in like in including my daughter in the

wedding like

and as soon as i got off the phone i

kept i kept the call short

you know because i could feel myself

about to take a little turn


let me

buy y’all you know i have to stop before

before i went too far but i remember

when like this was just like a week ago

now so i hung up the phone and i


shaking like crazy and just i cried i

couldn’t control

the emotions i almost had like it felt

like a little like a panic attack but it

only lasted for about like five or ten

minutes like god you have to help me

and then i took a deep breath after i

prayed i was like i let go of it it’s

nothing i can do about the situation

this whole journey has felt like a dream

it’s felt like this isn’t happening to

me like this none of this is happening

you know but

in that moment it still felt like a

dream nothing really changed it still

felt hurt it didn’t feel as hard as it

is hurtful as it’s been feeling but i

felt like a weight lifted off of me

because i did it but i still felt sad

but how good do you feel that you did

that you know in your heart that you did

what god would have amazing i feel so

great that’s the thing i feel so great

about it and i didn’t want to do it but

i i knew that it was the right thing to

do this is no kudos to me because i was

like god

yeah but so proud of you so proud of you

yeah thank you that’s awesome so that’s

a good lesson for everybody right there


i think there’s so much to be learned in

doing the hard things and nobody wants

to have to be in that situation and like

you said god

maybe that wasn’t his master plan for us

but people make choices and there’s sin

in the world and

we all have to make really hard

decisions and for

you to learn for all of us to learn when

we do make that decision that god will

be there for us he’s not going to let us

down and he’s going to help us that that

makes such a difference i i’ve really

talked about trying to be unoffendable

i’ve spent a lot of time learning that

when you get these little um hurts and

nicks and bruises of things that just

happen every day that the sooner i

forgive the quicker they heal

and if i don’t

even the little things you know somebody

said something or whatever somebody did


if i don’t they those wounds get deeper

and you replay them in your mind and

they get bigger maybe than they ever


or you share it with somebody else and

together you go

and it becomes a scar and a really deep

wound when it was never meant to be that

so if if i can jump on these things

right away

and choose to forgive as soon as i can

it’s made a huge difference for me

but kind of like you’re talking about i

had one situation years ago where just

out of the blue i had


i guess what i would call it a terrible

betrayal from a friend really really

severe just

blatant lies and

totally shocked and i was so hurt

and when you get something like that out

of nowhere out of nowhere and you’re


blown away

and just


i i think the the hard thing to do is to

begin with okay i need to forgive right

now you know i need to do it as soon as

i can and while that’s true

there there is a little bit of

preparation that you kind of have to do

for that wound you got to start to clean

it you know you can’t just put a

band-aid on it or it will come back up


and i really learned that through that

time that um

i had a lot of work in my heart to do

that was part of that forgiveness

process so it wasn’t just a okay god i’m

gonna forgive and i’m not gonna think

about this anymore i’m gonna move on

forgive and forget it it doesn’t work

that way it was god showing me step by

step by step

this is what you do first you know you

you make the decision to forgive

and then you stop wallowing in it you

stop reliving it you stop thinking what

will i say next time i see that person

you know so many steps that he showed me

that really helped me right

to get through that really

deep wound that i’m so grateful for

because it’s taught me so much for the

future and like you said i think it did

help prepare me

for god

for what god wanted to do in different

areas of my life one of the first things

that god wants us to do that’s so


is to pray for the people that hurt you

yeah it’s so hard and it’s really hard

in the beginning it is

it gets easier yeah it’s you know oh

don’t don’t make us look at that

i didn’t want to read a certain book of

the bible because it was his name

i used to think that if i prayed for god

to bless somebody

you know he’s going to

give them all these nice new things and

promote them and you know but that’s not

really when you pray for god to bless

somebody who’s

in sin or who’s done something wrong

probably the first thing he’s going to

try to bless them with is some truth in


yeah about their own behavior so we make

a mistake when we think the bible says

pray for them


and do not curse them

and that literally means pray for them

don’t say evil things about them

but say good things yeah with that i’m

praying bless them really good lord yeah

show them some really good stuff

all the blessings really i mean you know


praying for my dad all those years

finally brought him to the reality that

what he had done was wrong yeah


you know long story short and

everybody’s heard it he finally was

saved as a result of

i’ll never forget when he looked at dave

and he said

he said dave most men in your position

would have killed me

and all you ever did

was show me love wow

and so

what you did

in this last situation

in a way you did

not that you’re trying to do something

to them but you did more to them than if

you would have

openly come against them because

that kind of love you can’t argue with

that yeah it’s like what what can you do

with that

you can’t find

any fault with that yeah

yeah and the crazy thing is like i it

immediately made me think of some of the

things that i’ve gone through i think at

the when we first first first started

the podcast i would talk about my issue

with my my father

and that was before i even found out

about the infidelity or anything you

know and that was such a hard

thing you know going through that

forgiveness with my dad in that moment

it felt like the worst

hardest thing that i could have ever

done but

forgiving my dad even though my dad

never really apologized

like our relationship now in the in

these past couple of years has just

catapulted you know it’s nothing he’s

done i literally just like you know what

i’m tired of being mad at this man you

know like this is exhausting i’m tired

of being mad

you know i just don’t i’m too

i’m just

too old and been around the mountain too

many times to just spend another day i


anger is exhausting it is it’s hard work

it is to stay angry and to think all

those negative thoughts and yeah you

know just be

mad every time somebody you don’t like

gets blessed or

somebody likes somebody that you don’t

like it’s like just

something that’s really helped me is to

realize god is only going to hold me

accountable for me

he’s not going to hold me accountable

for what somebody else does

but when i stand before him

i’m only going to be held accountable

for me and what i’ve done so my job is

to do the right thing

by god’s grace with his help

no matter what anybody else does and no

that’s not easy but it is easier than

the other choice yeah yeah it’s so good

to then like what you said is take

ownership too of your role right in the

in the situation like i know i had a bad

attitude with my dad sometimes i know i

wasn’t the best wife so it’s like those

things that doesn’t justify what anybody

else does but it definitely shifts the

perspective on like god how can i grow

from this situation right how can i

learn from this situation so that

ownership piece is

very very vital in the healing and

forgiveness process it’s like you said

before healing forgiving yourself too

like yeah forgive myself for not

necessarily being the best daughter all

the time not being the best wife all the

time not being the best friend you know

like god work on me so that i can learn

from my mistakes unforgiveness is

probably the single biggest problem that

we have in the body of christ

i believe it probably opens more doors

for the enemy

in people’s lives than anything else

because the bible says in ephesians 4

when you’re angry don’t let the sun go

down in your anger so god never tells

you not to ever get angry right that’s

annoying i said i’m so glad that’s a

well it’s a normal

human emotion but he says when you’re

angry do not sin

yeah so you feel that anger but

how you handle it what you do with it

is the question yeah don’t let the sun

go down in your anger don’t get the

devil don’t give the devil any such

foothold in your life so we actually do

open a door and invite the devil into

our life by staying mad well that needs

to be said again

seriously because there are so many of


right now who are

giving the devil that opportunity and we

don’t even realize that we don’t even

know our people why am i having this

problem why did this happen to me well

well maybe you open the door for the


by not being obedient

to god in forgiving somebody you know i

i prayed this morning

hopefully thousands and

thousands of people will hear this

see this and forgive somebody

but even if one person


will forgive somebody that they’re

hating or holding something against the

world that we live in today is sick yeah

and it’s

it’s in pain this whole planet is like a

ball of pain

and it’s mostly over this kind of stuff

yeah it’s people hating people

because they’re different than they are

they’re hating people because of

something that happened you know way

back over here somewhere that nobody can

do anything about now the answer to so

many of our problems is to forgive and

to walk in love

this verse ephesians 4 32 says be kind

to one another tenderhearted forgiving

one another as god in christ forgave you

and it’s so easy to brush over that but

when i when we were studying for this

that tenderhearted word really struck me

because when i’m really angry and when

i’m holding unforgiveness my heart

is hard you know it becomes like a rock

and it you know i can be really hard

headed i i told aaron this

i had to do something where somebody

asked me to use three words to describe

how to describe myself and i asked my

husband and one of the words he threw

out was hard-headed

wait a

minute i can be hard-headed but i prefer

like persistent or

determined those are better words but


that’s just a little side note for


i’m not angry i’ve forgiven him

but i don’t want my heart to be hard

yeah because it’s really easy they’re

kind of connected my brain and my heart

are kind of connected and um i think

very logically and and when you think

about something a lot your heart goes

with it right and i don’t want to be

hardhearted and i’ve seen i’ve been so

blessed all over the world to interview

so many amazing people and see

incredible stories of forgiveness

i remember a story of

a man whose brother was murdered and he

went to the prison and forgave the man

who murdered his brother


they became good friends and he was an

advocate for his release and

stories of child soldiers who the only

reason they were able to get through

what they got through was because at

some point they had to forgive and

people who clawed their way out of

mass graves who were left for dead who

had to forgive the people that did that

to them i hear those things and i think

of what jesus forgave

i think of him saying father forgive

them for they know not what they do

that’s the key against what they do

overwhelmed by that because the things


the things that people are able to

forgive is only through the grace of the

holy spirit yeah and it really is a gift

when we when we can do that for one

another and when i see

your stories and when i see what christ

was able to do and other people in the

world i know that i i need to take that

step to make the decisions

not to let my heart get hard to treat

each other with love


mean i would like to ask my question now

it rolls nicely into this please do i’ve

been saving it up i would love to hear

it because i’m starting to say i’m

waiting for them curious so good but i

just know i’m not the only one who’s

going to have this kind of question

um lots of our friends are going to want

to know how you’d answer this but

mike and i were talking recently we’ve

been through a year and had some stuff

happen and it and so we’ve gone through

this process of forgiveness and so it

took a while like i i couldn’t get to it

right away um

but we got to the point where i felt

like i had forgiven him but things will

come up and i’ll i’ll get triggered and


all the pain will come back and

and i know it hurts him because he’ll

say i thought i thought you forgave me i

thought we’ve moved past this and

yes my response is always yes i have but

also like there’s pain that i now have

to work through so how do you

you can’t forgive and forget

but how do you forgive and not

keep going back to that pain or what is

the what’s that look like well you know

the word forget is kind of interesting

you know that in in isaiah it says do

not earnestly remember

the past things

so it

there’s a difference in forgetting


and sitting around and thinking about it

all the time


sure i can bring back up and to be


every once in a while i’ll find myself

drifting off into thinking about some of

the things my dad did to me

yeah and i’ll start feeling

upset and

and i’m like nope

not going there so you can

you can remember if you want to

but you don’t have to

you can choose not to

and so in a way

we can forget

not that you could never bring it back


you understand what i’m saying yeah it’s

like don’t earnestly remember don’t just

sit around and remember it and rehearse

it and that’s why it’s important not to

just keep talking about it and talking

about it and talking about it and yes

when you’re hurt like you were

it’s like having a bad father’s a bruise

there’s a wound

there’s a scab

you know it’s like healing sometimes

hurts worse

you know if you

if you fall and you you hurt yourself it

hurts but then

when that wound starts to form a scab

it actually hurts

even worse so it does take some time to

work through it but that still doesn’t

mean that you haven’t forgiven

yeah i think it’s a really good point

that because i can’t when this happened

last week when we had this conversation

i can remember at what point whatever

happened it was it was dumb it was it

was a dumb thing but i in my mind i

flipped over to connect why that made me

mad and i could just feel myself like

fueling my own anger

and reacting in a way that was totally

uncalled for but i justified it as


i can be mad i forgive you but i’m still

mad so

i can i can see how i could have made a

different choice to stop thinking about

that and just not go there

yeah one of the things that i’ve been

praying intentionally since all the

stuff that i’ve been dealing with was


like i can’t wipe away the memory

you know of what happened and i can’t


wipe away the fact that i felt the way i

felt when it when i found all of it out

and it kept happening you know and it’s

still happening you know like

the story doesn’t just stop you know um

you have to learn how to live

with that you know so i’ve been praying

and asking god intentionally god

please take the the pain away from the

memory let it like let the memory just

be a fact

it’s a fact that it happened but i i

pray that the the pain that’s affiliated

with it leaves like that’s one of the

things that i’ve been intentionally

praying like i can’t help blake when i

see people in love when i’m on a movie

like i can’t help when i see people talk

about marriage when i see people talk

about you know have their family

together you know are things that i

thought we were going to be like those

things trigger me instantly and it

instantly makes me go back to like

like it’s almost like it pulls me back

into where i was and like you said joyce

like you have to say like no like yes

that’s a fact but i don’t have to feel

that pain and also remembering that if

you let it

what happened to you even though it was


if you let it

god can use it to make you a better

person yeah

and that was really helpful to me when i

realized when i got to the point where i

thought you know

i said for years if only i wouldn’t have

been abused

if only i wouldn’t have been abused

thinking my life would be this or my

life would be that and i know i miss so

much in childhood i don’t even know what

i missed you know i don’t

i don’t know what it’s like to have a

father that you

could go to and sit on their lap and ask

for advice i mean

i’m just like

totally lost when it comes to that but i

do know that

when i finally i came to the point one

day i thought you know what i can’t even

really say i’m sorry that

it happened to me

because i know

that the fact that it did happen and

that god walked me through it

it’s made me who i am today yeah

it was it wasn’t god for it to happen

right but

you will turn out to be a better person

than you would have been

if you let god use it for that purpose

yeah i feel like so many other people

also i mean what you’re sharing will

help so many other people too yeah along

the way but all those different stories

you know of forgiveness that i’ve heard

i never heard anyone once ever say i

wish i would have held on to it a little

bit longer i wish i would have not

forgiven yeah and that’s good everyone

is is moving forward because they

forgave right not wishing they would

have stayed mad longer yeah and so

you’re right god god will use this in in

all of our lives what whatever it is

that we give to him

he’ll use in a positive way for our good

for his good and for the good of others

one verse i love that it’s not about

forgiveness in particular but first

corinthians 13 where it talks about what

love is and so i was going through that

recently and thought it’s patient and

kind and so did to take whatever

situation you’re upset about and apply

those words to it

i can’t change their behavior but that’s

how i need to respond that does make you

a better person i mean that does help

you grow

to where god wants to take you when

you’re that’s your focus not why you’re

so angry yeah yeah

well this is great stuff i mean i really

just think

several people listening


maybe had something that’s

seeped into their spirit maybe you’re

thinking about forgiving maybe you’re

ready to make that choice maybe you’ve

made it as we’ve been talking i don’t

know but i’m so grateful for all of you

sharing what you what you’ve been

through and i always like to hear

somebody say i’ll never forgive you oh


every anytime i hear that i think

you know don’t

don’t make that vow to yourself that

you’ll never forgive somebody because

your your life basically is on hold

until you make the decision to forgive

yeah and if you don’t want to be stuck

where you are right now

yeah it’s a good way to get out of that

rut is to make the choice to forgive

well we do have a free resource for you

that will be so helpful it’s joyce’s

booklet simply called forgiveness it’s a

free download so if you go to


talk it out you can get that free

download right there

we just pray for all of you right now in

jesus name that you can do what you need

to do that he will help you that he will

walk you through this that every step

that you go forward and you want to take

two back that he’ll just continue

pulling you right along with him you’re

not doing this alone when you do it in

his power and not yours thank you all

for being with us we love you we’ll see

you next time